Tonberry Race: Rough Draft:

[kenki]

This is a rough draft for a PC tonberry class, based off ff11, as well nerfed abilities from ffd20 and a 3.5 dnd wiki open source mod.

Tonberry Race:
Small Abborational Humanoid:

Desciption:
Tonberries are most like small lizard-men in appearance, having green-colored skin, long tails, yellow eyes and a hunched appearance. In either hand each tonberry carries a weapon (club or knife) and a lantern

Tonberrys recieve the following:

Base Land Speed: 15
Slower then most small creatures due to their nature, they are usually more timid , though easily angered.

Stats:
+4 con , -4 cha
Their really tanky, but not the prettiest of creatures, known to be timid but filled with a hidden rage and easily angered.

Skill Mods
-2 Intimidation racial mod due to their normal timid nature.
+2 Stealth racial mod when moving silently.

Bonus Feats:
Weapon focus: Knife as a free feat
2 Bonus Feats or 2 racial abilities

Weapon Prof:
Knife's and Clubs

Favored Class:
Thief:
Ninja:
Summoner:
Black mage:

Automatic Languages:
Common ,

Upon Character Creation:
Items Gained:
Masterwork Sacrifical Knife +2 ( 1d4+2 )
Masterwork Holy Lantern: Treated as a common latern however oil takes twice as long to burn out.

Rules for comfort objects:
Any time you try to sleep or do (anything specifically defined) without your Comfort Object, you must make a Will save (DC 10 + half your ECL) or be fatigued the next day due to a restless night. This fatigue stacks and may result in exhaustion if combined with another fatigue factor.

Effect: Knife or Club:
(This knife follows the flaw rules for comfort object, this knife must be used in battle at all times. It may be upgraded, replaced, and repaired like a normal weapon through the church of the lanturn. It may be upgraded and repaired by any blacksmith, with any special propertys infact any knife may become a new sacrifical knife, however it must become blessed and if replaced the original knife must be returned to the church along with a tithe of 1/10 value of all posessions, if upgraded consider the rules applying only for sleeping in the rules for comfort object. If destroyed in battle the tonberry must return the knife to the church as well as proof that the knife was destroyed in battle. If destroyed or lost by any means outside battle, a -2 con damage and -4 mourning modifer to all rolls shall instilled for a week or until reperations and pittance has been paid (dm's discression.)

A club may also be used instead of a knife.
Any other weapons incur a curse status effect as well as a -2 morale modifer for all rolls dealing in combat, also any xp gained shall be halfed.

Effect :Lantern:
(Standard lanterns last 6 hours, a tonberry's holy lantern lasts for 12 hours, this lantern is considered to follow the flaw rules of "comfort object")
(The latern must be lit at all times if possible, however does not always need to be on the tonberry while fighting, if the latern is destroyed the tonberry shall recieve a -2 con damage and lose 1/2 their hp and mp, as well as 200 xp per day until the tonberry makes pittance to a church of the lantern.)

If fighting with out carrying your lantern you will suffer a -2 morale penality to all rolls for every 1d4 rounds until held agian, this effect stacks until the lantern is held and all total incurred moraled penaltys shall be halfed and in effect for as many rounds as the tonberry was with out their lantern.

Flaws:
Comfort Object:
Weapon of choice: (Knife and/or club);
Lantern; (read rules above).

Restrictions:

Alignment:
Lawful Neutral Or Lawful Evil:
Religion: The Lantern
(Goddess Uggalepih)

According to the Tonberries' religion, their creator, the Goddess Uggalepih, had beauty that was envied by the Goddess Altana. A furious Altana transformed Uggalepih into a hideous beast and exiled her to the Outlands. Revenge for Altana's actions is said to be one of the origins of their rancor. Tonberrys are always known to have a sacred knife and sacred lantern with them as they travel.

Finally, the reason why they are never found without their lanterns or knives is explained in the following verses, often chanted by the Tonberries before battle:

"O brothersss of rancor, take up thy lanternsss,
The truth we shall illuminate.
O sistersss of rancor, take up thy knives,
To cleave our foesss with barren hate.
Through this we ssseek our just reward;
Our goddess's glory be ressstored."

Armor:
Cloth and Robes only reguardless of class:

Special Abilities:
A tonberry Recieves the following Special Abilities or may choose a bonus feat:
A feat slot may be reserved to be used for a special ability (must qualify for special ability, and follow ability patterns.)
(They recieve an additional trait or bonus feat at level 4 and level 8 )

Doink!:
(No req however, has special restriction:)
Special Restriction: You roll a 1d character level to max of 8. IE if your level 5, you roll a 1d5.
1/day (per char class level) can spend a full round action to stab an opponent with a -4 on the attack roll. The damage varies from 10- 80 points of damage with a 1d ( character level or 8 max ) is rolled to determaine how much damage is dealt. 1 = 10 , 2 = 20 and so on and so forth

Chief Knife:
( Reqs Level 4 )
( 1/per day for every 4 character level total )
A tonberry may make a knife attack. If a creature is stuck by it, it must make a fort save (dc 6 + 3 for every 4 character levels beyond 4 ) or it is reduced to -1 hp, stabilized and unconscious. Those immune to crits are immune to this.

Everyone's Grudge:
( Reqs Level 8 )
Once per round, as long as the tonberry is not making a knife attack, it may use its "everyone's grudge" ability on a single target within 30ft. The target takes 8d6 points of shadow damage + ( 1d6 for every 3 character levels beyond 8 ) (Fort save DC 10 + 1/2 character level + int mod for half damage.) Blue mage may learn this ability as a 4th level spell (DC 23) but do not get the damage increment. If a tonberry learns this ability from blue magery, he does not recieve the incremental damage unless he spells the special ability slot on the spell.

Tonberry's Rage:
(Reqs: No reqs)
This ability allows the retaliation of damage inflicted on the tonberry back to the opponent that caused the damage. The damage can ONLY be reflected back to the opponent that caused damage to the tonberry. The damage equals: total damage dealt at any given time by opponent/4. After tonberry's rage is used, the total damage dealt by that opponent is returned to 0 for purposes of damage retaliation. This ability can be used at will as a standard action.

Middle Special Racial Abilities:
A Tonberry at level 12 and every 3 levels after shall be allowed to pick 1 of these additional abilities
They may choose an ability listed above, or they may choose an additional bonus feat instead.

Throat Stab:
A stab considered of that of an assassins death attack:
If a tonberry studies his victim for 3 rounds and then makes a sneak attack with a melee weapon that successfully deals damage, the sneak attack has the additional effect of possibly either paralyzing or killing the target (tonberry's choice). While studying the victim, the tonberry can undertake other actions so long as his attention stays focused on the target and the target does not detect the tonberry or recognize the tonberry as an enemy. If the victim of such an attack fails a Fortitude save (DC 10 + the tonberrys class level + the tonberrys Int modifier) against the kill effect, she dies. If the saving throw fails against the paralysis effect, the victim is rendered helpless and unable to act for 1d6 rounds plus 1 round per level of the tonberry. If the victim’s saving throw succeeds, the attack is just a normal sneak attack. Once the tonberry has completed the 3 rounds of study, he must make the death attack within the next 3 rounds.

If a death attack is attempted and fails (the victim makes her save) or if the tonberry does not launch the attack within 3 rounds of completing the study, 3 new rounds of study are required before he can attempt another death attack.

Anything Immune to critical attacks are immune to this attack.

Vertical Slash:
1/per day for every 3 character levels beyond 12.
A tonberry can take a full round action to make a sunder attempt to blind an apponate making them lose their eyesite, with +3 to hit when attempting to sunder. Anything immune to critical attacks are immune to this attack.

Lateral Slash
1/per day for every 3 character levels beyond 12.
A tonberry can take a full round action to attack at an opponates legs crippling them for 1d4 rounds , unless they pass a fort save of (DC 10 + the tonberrys class level + the tonberrys Int modifier). Anything immune to critcal attacks are immune to this attack.

Light Of Penance:
1/per day for every 3 character levels beyond 12.
Gaze Attack: The target must be looking at the tonberry.
Any opponates with a limit break shall lose 1 use of their limit break, any spell casters targeting the tonberry must roll a concentration or will check (whichever is lowest) vs the tonberrys intimidation check + tonberry character level to save. If the roll to concentrate succeeds but is within 3 of the roll shall be interupted but not shaken. Those that fail at least by 1 to 4 shall become shaken. Failure lower than 5 or more of the d/c shall instead make the target become paniced.

Sigh:
1/per day use every 3 character levels beyond 12.
A tonberry gains a morale bonus (nonstatus effect) for 1d6 rounds with a temperary dex modifer bonus = to the dice roll. For each round the amount of dex mod bonus decreases by 1. IE: If you roll a 6, then your dex mod bonus gets +6, end of turn it becomes +5, then +4, and so on. This ability has a cool down period of 1d6 rounds x2.

Words of Bane:
1/per day for every 4 tonberry levels beyond 12:
A tonberry can inflict doom status on a target:
DC = DC 5 + Tonberry's Intimidation mod , Will saves

Free Advanced Racial Special Ability:
Limit Break:
Reqs: Character Level 15

Ritual Bind
Area of Effect: 15 feet:
Stop and Paralyze (All opponates within 15 feet lose -5 to hit for 1d4 rounds when attacking and cannot move or act for 1 round.)
Save is DC = 10 + Tonberry's Intimidation mod, Will save on Stop status, Fort save on Paralyze status.

Bonus Effect: If they have the throat stab ability, they may teleport to an opponate within 10 feet as a free action (if the room allows such space, and are allowed a free throat stab attack, at DC = 5 + 1/2 the character level + Int mod. Read throat stab reguarding additional rules for this ability.

[Fatal Rose]

This is really cool.

[TheFrozenMoogle]

This is my DM. And as always it is still incredibly, incredibly, overpowered. Allow me to show you why, once again, for the fifth time...why. Chef Knife. Level 4 instant death. Yet you usually complain whenever I use a level one chemists bomb on a mob, or anything else. Level 8...8d6. Okay. Sure. When does a bluemage get this? Allow me to show you..at minimum level 11. But in a campaign like yours, you'd make sure it would be never used when the blue mage is conscious. At level 12, which is an improvement of the last rough draft, lateral slash is still incredibly powerful. Sure, let me just be a thief..so I can cripple you. Oh! Now I'm free to use sneak attack while I stab your face! Light of Penance...just..what? I'm suprised you didn't include "immune to all status effects" Just like Villadins mob. Kenki, aka my DM..this is still an extremly overpowered concept, simply due to the abuse it has. Until you refine it further, I am sure most players will agree with me.

[Viladin]

This is my DM. And as always it is still incredibly, incredibly, overpowered. Allow me to show you why, once again, for the fifth time...why. Chef Knife. Level 4 instant death. Yet you usually complain whenever I use a level one chemists bomb on a mob, or anything else. Level 8...8d6. Okay. Sure. When does a bluemage get this? Allow me to show you..at minimum level 11. But in a campaign like yours, you'd make sure it would be never used when the blue mage is conscious. At level 12, which is an improvement of the last rough draft, lateral slash is still incredibly powerful. Sure, let me just be a thief..so I can cripple you. Oh! Now I'm free to use sneak attack while I stab your face! Light of Penance...just..what? I'm suprised you didn't include "immune to all status effects" Just like Villadins mob. Kenki, aka my DM..this is still an extremly overpowered concept, simply due to the abuse it has. Until you refine it further, I am sure most players will agree with me.

^ my exact thoughts.

[kenki]

T.T this feel of being picked on... for combining ff11 tonberry with 3.5 fan made tonberry. (I belame square enix)

Anyway, This class has a lot of penaltys and morale killers as well to it. Not to mention the whole "lets have a race that uses a 1d4 knife...." common now..

Also most of the saves are = based to what is in vlads campain and weaker.

(The Tonberry has to be level 12 for light of penance rember
Also All players have at minum 2 uses of limit break + feats of additional limit break and probley I'm not sure but don't they also get an additional limit break every 4 levels ?)

To me this ability seems balanced as it counters the "limit break" function, as a counter check.

Light of penance is a little op: but its "one spell interrupt and one limit break reduction" Thats not realllyyyy as op as it sounds.

It can only do it, 1-3 times a day. So seems to me a little fair, However to each their own I suppose.

The only thing truely op is just it being based on its character level which can be knocked down or adjusted.

(Edit: forgot that part of the math)

[TheFrozenMoogle]

No. Your forgetting. You added class level inside as well. ntimidation check + tonberry character level to save. What this means is the negative modifier is boosted regardless..by 12. So at a minimum would be a nineteen. And no. That isn't why its broken. We have very few limit breaks available, unless we take extra feats to do so. So a pretty hard dc for concentration, or will, and a limit break drain regardless? Kinda broken. Also, those feels of being picked on? Your imagining them. I'm showing you what happens when you don't play someone like a mage, sure lets ruin the Limit Break users day. After all..he'll need that to save his parties life in this fight..

[kenki]

Limit break usage:
For discussioun purposes on this line here:

"LIMIT BREAK SYSTEM

Limit breaks are special abilities that all base and prestige classes get at 1st level. To activate a limit break, most require a standard action (though some limit breaks allow swift actions to be used) and you can only activate a limit break while your health is 50% or less. At 1st level, you get 1 limit break usage per day, and every 4 levels thereafter, you gain an additional limit break usage."

2 (at level 1) + 1 (level 5) + 1 (level 10) = 4 (or 5 if you get said feat)

A tonberry can only use this 1-3 times a day.

A party is typically 3 to 4 members, so the party as a whole would have about 12-16 limit breaks. Tonberry npc would probley only be himself at highest , or hireling or a boss mob since its a cr 12 at this point. (So you could on cr scaling only fight 1 of these).

Umm agian, not seeing the issue.

[TheFrozenMoogle]

I'll allow Villadin to explain to you why this entire race is completely broken. Since I'm sure he's dealt with these things before.

[kenki]

Ok next thing
Lets attack this one as the moogle is raging on my skype :p and I am posting here.

"Throat Stab:
A stab considered of that of an assassins death attack:
If a tonberry studies his victim for 3 rounds and then makes a sneak attack with a melee weapon that successfully deals damage, the sneak attack has the additional effect of possibly either paralyzing or killing the target (tonberry's choice). While studying the victim, the tonberry can undertake other actions so long as his attention stays focused on the target and the target does not detect the tonberry or recognize the tonberry as an enemy. If the victim of such an attack fails a Fortitude save (DC 10 + the tonberrys class level + the tonberrys Int modifier) against the kill effect, she dies. If the saving throw fails against the paralysis effect, the victim is rendered helpless and unable to act for 1d6 rounds plus 1 round per level of the tonberry. If the victim’s saving throw succeeds, the attack is just a normal sneak attack. Once the tonberry has completed the 3 rounds of study, he must make the death attack within the next 3 rounds.

If a death attack is attempted and fails (the victim makes her save) or if the tonberry does not launch the attack within 3 rounds of completing the study, 3 new rounds of study are required before he can attempt another death attack.

Anything Immune to critical attacks are immune to this attack.

Ok, So the tonberry has look at you for 3 rounds, he cannot act outside movement and must maintain sight of you. Then he must be in melee range for the final attack round or he has to do it again. IE: If you are stupid enough to stand let the tonberry study you for 3 moves, and do it, who's at fault. Besides there are phoenix downs in the game rember. Death is not perminate.

You also could outrun the tonberry which has a base movement of 15 feet. Agian 15 feet. Thats 3 squares. Avg player walks 20 feet to 30 feet. So outside of character level how is this op. The tonberry cannot attack you for 3 turns, he must get hurt for 3 turns, and he must be in melee range of you on the final turn.

You can easily kill the tonberry or evade the tonberry before this happens.
Edit: Agian only issue is formuli which can be changed.

[TheFrozenMoogle]

ok , so how is it the tonberrys fault if he has to study you for 3 rounds
[9:55:41 PM] Mike Stanton: but
[9:55:43 PM] Mike Stanton: only thing agian
[9:55:45 PM] Mike Stanton: is "class level"
[9:55:51 PM] Mike Stanton: thats the only thing breaking it
[9:56:09 PM] Mike Stanton: a study requires he doesn't act for 3 rounds outside moving
[9:56:11 PM] Eno, Golgari Artificer: Why does he need to study me for three rounds?
[9:56:13 PM] Mike Stanton: he has to look at you for 3 rounds
[9:56:17 PM] Eno, Golgari Artificer: Just slice my legs and cripple
[9:56:19 PM] Mike Stanton: because thats the rule on throat stab
[9:56:20 PM] Eno, Golgari Artificer: Auto hit
[9:56:22 PM] Eno, Golgari Artificer: Auto crit
[9:56:24 PM] Eno, Golgari Artificer: Auto confirmed
[9:56:26 PM] Eno, Golgari Artificer: Max dage
[9:56:26 PM] Mike Stanton: he has to wait for 3 moves
[9:56:30 PM] Eno, Golgari Artificer: *damage
[9:56:58 PM] Eno, Golgari Artificer: Okay...do you want this race played in one of your campaigns mike?
[9:57:12 PM] Eno, Golgari Artificer: I know exactly what I'll do too.
[9:57:23 PM] Mike Stanton: lol all i've said was "outside character level" being an issue
[9:57:29 PM] Mike Stanton: give me something
[9:58:22 PM] Eno, Golgari Artificer: Give you what?
[9:58:34 PM] Eno, Golgari Artificer: Anythinng I say to you, you take as either cruelty, or bullcrap.
[9:59:27 PM] Eno, Golgari Artificer: No point in trying to point it out to you Mike.
[9:59:33 PM] Eno, Golgari Artificer: Because you wont see any other side.
[10:03:09 PM] Mike Stanton: no post
[10:03:12 PM] Mike Stanton: read the post
[10:03:25 PM] Mike Stanton: (ie: new post)

(This is rage apparently)

[kenki]

Anyway side remarks:
Next move up for discussion:

"Lateral Slash
1/per day for every 3 character levels beyond 12.
A tonberry can take a full round action to attack at an opponates legs crippling them for 1d4 rounds , unless they pass a fort save of (DC 10 + the tonberrys class level + the tonberrys Int modifier). Anything immune to critcal attacks are immune to this attack."

Ok outside again class level, the term cripple is actually meant as a status effect of crippling their movement speed by 1/2 for 1d4 rounds.

It's not meant to deny or cause helplessness.

It "can" be combined with throat slash if the tonberry rolls a "4" however a white mage's esuna can easily fix this problem, not to mention potions, or even a simple heal check.

So this falls into wording issues and i can change this later.

Honestly it was just a intended to be a temperary debuff. Nothing about auto crit auto succeed insta death nonsence.

[TheFrozenMoogle]

And apparently, trying to stop an arguement is rage quitting. I love your childish nature..

---

Anyhow as I said, I'll leave it to Villadin on how to get this close to being actual feasible. Because, I don't own this system. He does.

[kenki]

:p because arguements lol. Anyway seriously I would like help making this a playable race to keep with the intended goal of keeping it around the ff11 power levels.

There is wiggle room for improvement as its a rough draft :p.

[Viladin]

>.> I don't want to step in this argument. Just saying that its a bit overpowered.

[kenki]

>.> I don't want to step in this argument. Just saying that its a bit overpowered.

Like I told him:

Yes I agree the dcs are op , i accept it.

But most of the skill moves are also easily countered, the idea was the bring the opness down a bit.

I'm asking for help to rebalance it but keep the ff11 vibe to it.

All the moves there are ability they possess. Also thats why I didn't give it immune to status effects because that would make it even worse.. and I'd have a campain full of players angry at me.

They've seen ponki.. and his lack of direction lol.

(Ponki is my flavor muted tonberry mime speced player)

:p Anyway, we were hoping you'd help us.

I don't mind addressing each skill and explaining the motives and ways to twart it. Also I'll remove the class skill into their dcs because that is op I surrender that.

However, we really want to have tonberrys as npcs and pcs.

[dairius_chi]

...alright the issue here is NPC/Monster Tonberries and PC Tonberries should NOT be built the same way. Ones in the wild should be XHD creatures with a slew of special abilities, PC Tonberries chose to live among the more intelligent races and lost some of what makes them one of the more feared creatures in FF.

I don't know what FF11 'balance' or 'vibe' means beyond backstory and lore, but what you have right now doesn't work alongside standard FFd20 or Pathfinder in general- which FFd20 uses as its core system.

To help you along I will address each issue separately... first off save DCs or stuff should be using half character level, the Assassin archetype(FFd20) and PrC(for PF) both have something that works the same way and neither would ever reach that DC. It doesn't even have the issue such an ability in a class has that multiclassing lowers your DC overall, this is based off pure HD... so yeah, half is how you'll have to go about it for EVERY ability to stay in line with how racial abilities work.

Also, Esuna only works on effects of Spell level 3 or lower, and Vil has ruled abilities gained from a class or race that aren't explicitly stated as a certain level count as spell level 1/2 HD or Class Levels(rounded down), so Esuna wouldn't work on any of these past Tonberry ECL 7(as at ECL 8 it would count as a 4th level spell).

Small Aberrational Humanoid, not a race or subtype... you'd either have to make it Humanoid(Aberration) or just straight Aberration, if it's the latter there are some racial traits you'd have to look over and take into account so Humanoid(Aberration) is probably the easier way to go. Could also just call it Humanoid(Tonberry), really.

Base Land Speed 15, to my knowledge no PF races have this. Closest is Slow and Steady (20ft, not slowed by armor or encumbrance).

Stats: +4 Con/-4 Cha... not really a stat template for making races that matches this, but not impossible to manage. Overall seems fine.

Skill Mods: -2 Intimidate? I don't see it. If Gnomes and Halflings and Fairies don't take a racial penalty I don't get why a Tonberry should. Let's face it if they existed stories WOULD be told about them and everyone would know 'this is a monster, no wait- This is a fracking TONBERRY!'
+2 Stealth? Not necessary since they get +4 for being small, don't give them too many bonuses. I think it's best to scrap skill mods entirely.

Bonus Feats: Weapon Focus(weapon of choice) and TWO others? No, just no. No 0HD PC race gets 3 bonus feats, this is non-negotiable. Weapon Focus I could see fitting, I guess.

Weapon Prof: Knives and Clubs. Some races get proficiency with certain weapons, but these are both simple- every class besides Monk is going to be proficient with those. This is unnecessary.

Favored Class: Look fine, not sure why Summoner but I didn't play much of 11 so eh.

Languages: Just give them Tonberry language if they're meant to have another one, no existing ones that would match it to my knowledge.

Comfort Objects: First instance of 'good for monster, not for PC'. PC races can have flaws sure but this is overdoing it.

Effects: The cost to replace the knife is way too much. For monsters I'd just say 'can't be sundered', for PCs limiting them to a single weapon is out of the question. Playable races don't work that way.

Lantern: This actually seems okay I guess, an interesting racial tidbit. The penalties for not having it no but just the idea of a special lantern that oddly works for longer- I'd go a step further. A racial trait that gives then an eternal Lantern, never has to be fueled, never runs out, oddly produces no heat, and can be turned off or on as a Standard Action.

Racial Restrictions: Again, no. Monsters it's fine but for a race a PC is going to play there are 'suggested' or 'common' alignments, none entirely disallowed.

Armor: No. Monsters yes, Playable Races no. Even races in DnD that had trouble wearing armor due to body spines or something simply had to pay double the base cost to have some fitted for them. There's nothing about a Tonberry PC that should force them to only wear cloth armor outside of class and preference.

Special Abilities: Dear Aeons... the option of another free feat every 4 levels? Power of abilities aside this is just ludicrous. No, no feats, some of these MIGHT be able to work as racial traits, the rest should only be obtainable for PC Tonberries as racial feats. Look at the Mandragora's spell-like abilities and racial feats for a good idea on how to handle those.

Doink!: 1/day/character level attack dealing 10-80 damage? No. Since races aren't forced to use one weapon or another this should be limited to NPC Tonberries alone. As far as how it works... Full-Round, no penalty, attack deals double damage (sneak attack dice maximized, not doubled). Usable 3/day for standard monster Tonberries, maybe additional for some of the 'higher tier' or if you're making a King Tonberry NPC.

Chef Knife: Number of uses don't seem bad, again it relies on a specific weapon so it should be limited to the NPC/Monster Tonberries. DC isn't outrageous, caps out at 21 by 20th HD, but you should specify it takes a Standard Action otherwise nothing stopping a wild Tonberry from using 2-4 of them in a single full-attack.

Everyone's Grudge: As a monster ability this seems fine, though having it be usable infinitely is a bit much. I'd suggest limiting it to 1/target/day, or just give them a pool of 5-6 uses, with more for higher tiered Tonberries. THis is one that could work for Tonberries, but not from 1st level. Racial Feat requiring character level 7+ and being a Tonberry, usable 1/day but can be taken multiple times.

Tonberry's Rage: Immediate Action that just deals the damage taken from a single attack/instance, no piling it up for more damage. Usable 3/day for standard Monster Tonberries, 1/day for PC Tonberries through a racial feat (no level req). 'Extra Tonberry's Rage' could be a feat with level 7+ that gives 2 extra uses, can only be taken once.

Throat Stab: NPC/Monster Tonberries with this seems fine, though as I suggested simply giving them racial HD also throwing on Sneak Attack +2d6 for regular Tonberries could work. DC needs to be changed, as you've been told and admitted to (not sure why you fought for it so long if that is the case, but regardless), the duration on paralysis should also be lowered to +1 round/2 HD. This one can be worked to affect other weapons, I guess, but requires Sneak Attack so it would probably be best to just have Thief Tonberries take the Death Attack Advanced Thief/Rogue talent.

Vertical Slash: Permanent Blindness is serious business, and on an ability with multiple uses/day? Nah, even for monster Tonberries I'd say only 1/day, and has to be on a foe that is denied their dex or flanked. Blindness lasting 1 round/2 HD is enough for a battle. I seriously doubt in FF11 there's a monster that can permanently blind your character/avatar. With the power drop this COULD work for Players but I'd suggest simply making it a racial Advanced Thief Talent that only Tonberries can take.

Also having it work of Sunder? No, you don't Sunder a body part. This would just be an attack roll, if anything with a -5 penalty as hitting their eyes is a hard target. With the duration drop I might consider it not allowing a save being okay, but I'd really feel better if it had a fort 10+1/2 HD or class level(for Thief Talent) + Int modifier

Lateral Slash: Same deal as above, though for monsters I could see this being fine at 3/day for standard Tonberries. There's already a Thief Talent I wanna say that lowers movement speed for X rounds on a Sneak Attack, so just use that for PC.

Light of Penance: Uh... for monsters I guess this could work. The part about casters though, just drop it. Maybe add something where 'when using Light of Penance the Tonberry gets to make a free Intimidate check against all foes within 60ft' so when they use it they can shaken a few people, but chance of Panick seems a bit much. Not for PC Tonberries. For monsters having it just be 1/day is enough.

Sigh: If I'm reading this right, since it increases your dex MOD it basically gives you 2-12 Dexterity. No. Giving them a rage-like ability with rounds equal to their HD + Con modifier is fine. +4 morale bonus to Dex for the duration, maybe even +10ft movement speed. When ended each round spent = 2 rounds fatigued. For PCs This could work as a feat, but I'd put it high up- like level 13-15+

Words of Bane: 1/day max, regardless of Tonberry tier (King Tonberry or equivalent maybe 2 or 3). DC should be Will 10 + 1/2 Tonberry HD + Int mod. You can't just change the formula from one ability to the next, this is Pathfinder, abilities are 'Con-based' means 10 + 1/2 HD + con mod, sometimes misc bonuses are applied. For instance, I put Int since all their other abilities run off it, if you were to change that to Charisma since it's intimidation based I'd say a +2 racial bonus to offset their cha penalty is fine. 5+skill mod? No.

Skill Focus, Persuasive (if not that whatever feat that gives +2 Intimidate), taking the trait Bruising Intellect (intimidate runs off Int instead of Cha), and let's say the minimum of 12 ranks. 12 + 0(cha mod, assuming no enhancement bonuses) + 3(class skill) + 6(skill focus doubled at ten ranks) + 4(other feat doubled at ten ranks) = 25, so Will save DC 30. I could see a DC 30 saving throw against something like an Elder Dragon's breath weapon, but monsters just don't get save DCs that high- it just doesn't work that way on a 12 HD creature.

Ritual Bind: 1/day for free on the higher tiers of Tonberries (as standard Tonberries shouldn't even get close to 15 HD), make it a 30ft radius, Save DCs are 10 + 1/2 HD + Int modifier for the same reason as Words of Bane. Even the free Throat Stab doesn't feel too bad since this is FF and occasional deaths should happen, especially against something with 15 HD. But if you send a group with 3 or 4 Tonberries that can do this, you are GMing wrong.


To be frank, you didn't make anything that's really workable as a race. Bits and pieces on their own are fine but you HAVE to become uniform with how other races work if you expect this to be 'fair' or 'balanced'. Normally I'm against having a 'Monster' and 'PC' version of the same thing but it's the only way I can think of to make what you're trying to achieve even possible. PC races just don't do the things you're trying to push for, neither do monsters on most of it but creative liberties.

I don't claim to be 100% correct on absolutely everything I said but I do have a good knowledge of the PF system and even FFd20 despite forgetting how certain class features work from time to time. My way might not be the best but it's a step up from what you've got so far. Please do take my suggestions into consideration, but ultimately... Tonberries as a PC race feels like a tall order to fill. You will have to sacrifice some of the lore or feel of a Tonberry to make it work as a PC. Maybe you'll have players that run cloth armor Thieves, that would be awesome, but it shouldn't be forced on them.

[kenki]

Well, Perma blindness (i don't think I put anywhere but not intended) Its just a blind effect that can be easily cured by a potion, esuna, and so on. If I wrote perma then sorry.

Opening statement on stats:
>.>, The CR rateing is a bit off from the level up requirements and applying class level (easily fixed) which would probley go from there. Also, your a bit wrong on some of the saves.

There are 3 saves, will, reflex and fort. Not all saves have to be reflex or fort. However the problem is will also has limited use, and there are actual moves in at least 3.5 that cover str , dex, con and int saves independently instead of those 3 saves. So pardon when i say "has been done before can be changed"

Side issues: Some moves can be reset.

Bonus feats are a bit out of date as this thread was made when ffd20 was made 3.5 / pathfinder and had not fully converted to pathfinder yet.

Racial attacks and spell like abilities from racial sides are not abnormal, of course I can grant you I'll give another look at those.

Separating tonberry types pc to monster , I can agree some moves could probley be edited , increased requirements, and so on. I wanted to give the players a bit more options. Also the clause for blue mage, is because "yes a tonberry and a pc bluemage, tonberry player attacks pc so bluemage can learn the skill, no rp reason given or anything" was defiantly on my DO NOT WANT list.

Note that limitation was only for pc tonberrys again because of above reason.


Back to purpose:
The final fantasy 11 version had tonberrys of those 4 jobs. (Summoner/ Ninja / Thief / Blackmage) so I was trying to take skills they gave them into here (I could apply that as a racial requirement as a balancer I suppose) , I wanted them to have a bit of wiggle room for those pesky jobs that should have preferences but don't *I'm looken at you SAGE!!!!*
So its a little more forgiving, but not necessary.

Example of that is burmecian beast master combo. This was sort like that as intended.
(IT doesn't really cause much harm to have a weapon focus dagger or club to me anyway)


Now onto the next point:
"You can't sunder a part of a body"

Actualllyyyy, yes you can, this agian was a old dnd mechanic , however this is also in pathfinder: for rule's look here.

"http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/other-rules/called-shots"

Racial Stats
-2 to intimate:
(Simple: Every player when first seeing a tonberry think's its cute, and harmless, and slow, and stupid.) That was reflect that habit. It was also a way to balance the skills that are based off the intimidate skill. (example already used mechanic of this is varg on diplomacy)

Can be adjusted it was just a flavor and a balance mechanic can be removed.

Esuna:
"Also, Esuna only works on effects of Spell level 3 or lower, and Vil has ruled abilities gained from a class or race that aren't explicitly stated as a certain level count as spell level 1/2 HD or Class Levels(rounded down), so Esuna wouldn't work on any of these past Tonberry ECL 7(as at ECL 8 it would count as a 4th level spell)."

Don't see this on site or change logs, vlad your snoozen on the job.

Base movement:
15 feet, agian this goes into the flavor of the tonberry, example of this is ff7 where they take forever to get to your side of the field outside any other monster.

Only things that seem to have 15 foot is while "burrowing" or "swimming".

This was also intended as a counter balance to the tonberry having high melee moves. Can be given to 20 , but kinda kills the flavor and vibe of tonberrys, but I can conseed I suppose.

Lantern and Knife
This was a biggy: Agian 3.5 at the time I made it. There was a flaw called "comfort object" that granted a bonus feat.

This was also an attempt at balancing and flavor.
Example of this is the moogles "bon bon" that was written in some 3.5 fan based content.

Cost for replacing was kinda to represent the same as a chocobo knight losing their mount, it was a bit heavy but gave the pcs an opportunity to kind of make it an easier fight and balance the tonberry's out. IE: Has room to be adjusted changed and what not.

(My group hates "immune to all status effects and everything being fort save ahemm..) So this was more a strike of balance.

Racial Restictions on alignment:
*points at vlad his tonberry descriptor*

Armor:
Their a turtle, and most cloth give no +ac to begin with. Agian wiggle room, just putting that out there.

Racial mods: +2 stealth
Was because they were intended to be medium, can be removed and made to be like small.

Special Abilitys:
1 bonus feat every 4

Reason: Because they don't have the other thing because that didn't exist yet.
Those bonus to job trait things. Even then, its reconized by pathfinder in the traits page, that 2 traits is = to 1 feat. So actually thats balanced and you guys are op on that one.

"http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits"

"Gaining Traits

When you create your character for a campaign, ask your GM how many traits you can select. In most cases, a new PC should gain two traits, effectively gaining what amounts to a bonus feat at character creation. Some GMs may wish to adjust this number somewhat, depending upon their style of play; you may only be able to pick one trait, or your GM might allow three or more. Even if your GM normally doesn’t allow bonus traits, you might still be able to pick up some with the Additional Traits feat."

So kinda just saying there is fair precedent to have that, can be adjusted, and arguments about the skills becoming a feat is fine too, just saying that isn't too far fetched.


Making a tonberry be a modified level thing.
1/2 and so on.

My players have had yes and no's to that, they want the dc's lowered but were mixed about progression.
As I'll be looking at a rework at it tomorrow,when I wake up.
I'll try to take a whack at making it a bit more restrictive, skill rewordings, and go from there.
It might need to be a 1/2 race but no idea.

Anyway its 5:24 am and i need to pass out, lol :p.

[dairius_chi]

Having a little trouble reading your post, not sure if English isn't your first language but... it seems you've missed my points on several areas.

Basically, this race is broken- parts of it are just plain too strong and others don't follow the uniform rules for building races. Not sure who 'Vlad' is, is that what you're calling Viladin? If it's another player who made stuff, then his material isn't really usable as a source for any official ffd20 discussions...

There are rules for building races in Pathfinder, they made an entire pdf about it and the system can be found for free online. Use that to try and get the closest you can but... flaws don't exist in Pathfinder, there are Drawbacks which can net you additional traits but you can only take one so by your own logic, only worth half a feat.

There are no solid rules for gaining traits so saying '2 traits = 1 feat' doesn't make getting 7 bonus feats over 20 levels fair. It just doesn't. Also, while traits can be 'earned' or 'given' the concept of getting 14 of them is outlandish at best.

You don't have to take my criticism, but believe me when I say: This race? Doesn't work. You pretty much have to start from the ground up, it's horribly balanced in that it isn't at all and I dread for anyone playing in a game where something like this is used. Not because it's overly powerful, but it's just blatant power gaming and min/maxing. 'Oh... sure this ability is super strong, but it has these drawbacks worked in to balance it.' That doesn't balance it, in fact it does the opposite, it makes the race incredibly terrible on one side and incredibly potent on the other, there is no middle ground.

EDIT: Also, not sure if you've looked over the ffd20 equipment in over a year but... all cloth armor gives an AC bonus. +1-+2, with potential +5 enhancement bonus.
There are rules for how creatures are supposed to function, just use those to try and make this work.

[Gizmo]

Vil made a Tonberry in the Beastiary. It seems awkward to me, that the Tonberry race you created, at the same CR as the one Vil created, would be more powerful. Something to consider.