Chemist idea alterations,these bad idea?

[Zwordsman]

So I was wondering if anyone saw any huge issues with a few specific changes to abilities the chemist has. Mostly done to make them more user friendly (in my experience). but I haven’t played enough to really know.

I'm also considering making an archetype purely focused on creating, using alchemical items... but honestly. outside of the two things I note below. I really think they are already perfect. absolutely favorite class in anything d20


Granted if they could probably also get some explosive bonuses or something. who knows

These both thought up when i was making my gunner type. who had a white revolver enchanted with nonlethal, and it was loaded with potion infused bullets. so he could shoot allies to heal them. with other clips infused with various bullet types for special monsters.

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Firstly, the original
Alchemical Mixture (Ex): At 4th level, a chemist can make a temporary alchemical item. As a standard action, a chemist can create an alchemical item from the tier 1 list from the alchemical item list at no cost. An alchemical item created this way only lasts for 1 round per chemist level before it loses all potency. The chemist can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + his Intelligence modifier. At 11th level, a chemist can create an alchemical item from the tier 2 list. At 18th level, a chemist can create an alchemical item from the tier 3 list.

So. I was considering altering this to last mins, or hours per level; maybe the middle ground of 10 or 30mins per level. hour seems the most useful since at a point you basically do it in the morning if you're a set character design.
Why? Because for a long period of time it is basically only useful to heal up damage, or status effects after a battle. and really I think it could be made into a good option for great character customization detail if it lasted longer. Instead of basically being the surprise bank one could make some interesting things. Like alchemical bullets. Really sing out their own uniqueness.

So does anyone see any massive unbalance with this? I really don't see anything terrible. they still are temporary and unkeepable. Eventually you can combine them to higher tier stuff. but that eats your uses FAST. and if you combine with areal item. well you just lost a real item when the fake runs out.
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Original
Throw Potion (Ex): Starting at 2nd level, a chemist can throw potions to allies within 15 feet. This improves by an additional 15 feet for every four levels afterwards to a maximum of 60 feet. The chemist must hit an AC of 10 (+/- from size). The recipient must have a hand free to catch the potion. If the recipient is adjacent to an enemy, he provokes an attack of opportunity. If the chemist has multiple attacks, he can throw up to that many potions as a full-attack action. Throw Potion (Ex): Starting at 2nd level, a chemist can throw potions to allies within 15 feet. This improves by an additional 15 feet for every four levels afterwards to a maximum of 60 feet. The chemist must hit an AC of 10 (+/- from size). The recipient must have a hand free to catch the potion. If the recipient is adjacent to an enemy, he provokes an attack of opportunity. If the chemist has multiple attacks, he can throw up to that many potions as a full-attack action.


So for this one. Two changes, well one for sure and one potential.
Potential: Rewording the actual ability content to be allowed to throw any beneficial alchemical items (i.e. you can't throw them an attack one to use via this ability. but I could throw them a soft, or phoenix down (if they are down)

For sure wanted change: I wanted to add a line. after the bit about a free hand "The recipient may use an immediate action to use the alchemical item" also potentially allowing free stowing of said item..
That way it is far more like the game one. You can throw and it actually takes action. Not you throw. they catch. they must wait till their turn to drink it. or you could throw a phoenix down long range and help a downed ally. or you could spread items around rapidly as things evolve.
I really feel like the ability for the recipient to use the item right then is important. but I see the danger of a full round throwing and automatic free uses. so I ended up settling on the immediate action idea. That way if I wanted to, I could still throw them multiple things but they can only use one.
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Edit: new thought.
So. I'm sorta considering making the above an archtype, and maybe replacing something for the ability to add INT to DC of alchemical items, and maybe damage (or maybe class lv damage). Only for self crafted alchemical items.
Maybe replacing potion quaf and improved quaf or something. Maybe anesthetic?
I thought about one or two discoveries. but seems like it might be a bit strong?
or maybe one that increases the caster level to the chemist's level.. thatm ight be a bit easier balanced.
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Unrelated note to self: consider looking at a toxicant styled archetype. Though already does well with poison bomb.
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[Biyama]

1.) The idea of alchemical admixture is you make what you need right at that moment. 4 rounds should be more than enough time to drink a potion or throw out some elemental mayhem. If it lasted hours/level, you could use all your uses before you went to sleep and still have time to burn on their duration.

2.) Throwing other alchemical items for people to use is nice and all but they still have to be able to use it. In the cases you specifically reference they are either dead or petrified, neither of which is capable of moving. That said, I think the ranged application of cures is a useful idea. I think alchemists should be able to apply items at range if they make a ranged touch attack against the target as a standard action. This way you have a way to revive somebody safely while not worrying about somebody completely undoing a TPK in one round

[Zwordsman]

Thanks for the reply!

I don't think you can use it that well for "oh crap i need a status effect cure/potion" since its one round to make it, then can use it next round (assuming you are in close hand off range or its a potion). Or if you are giving it to another person. Its create. throw(potion only) or close range handoff. then they use. I've basically never seen it used as anything but after battle top offs. Like a wand of cure light wounds in Pathfinder. Which just seems like a sad use. It works more later levels since you get upwards of a min at level 10. so there is some prebattle prep ability.. But it really should be able to express the Chemist's core ability of "I've got an item for every situation!" that made them so amazing and useful in FFT (and I guess Rikku was sorta one too. and that was the best thing about her was the ability to get the perfect thing)

I like the idea that it rewards forsight "we're walking into a place with massive dungeon complex full of poisoning monsters,a lot of cockatrice we need a lot of softs" and make a bunch in preperation right before entering the area. Not "oh crap I knew we were in an area with cockatrice.. but we didn't have time to stop in town for softs. and now everyone but me is stoned! Oh i must make these quicker while trying to not die! *and mechanically use 2 rounds on each person at least probably more*"
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Good point that it should automatically die off too though. like when sleep or something. Or go with the mins or 10mins.. In my head it automatically reset into nothingness when you "reset" the ability each day. That was my assumption I guess.

Relatively low uses per day makes me feel like it needs to be more than just 1min per level. 10 mins isn't bad.. a little over 3 hours at level 20. Granted that still isnt a whole lot of "we're walking around in poison bog. let me hand out free antidontes in case" kinda prepping. But in that situation I dont' really need to make it until someone gets poisoned anyway.
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so. hour per level. Or 10 mins per level. Disappears when the ability resets each day.
Any other detail you think it needs?

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On the throwing bit.. It is really just because that was what Chemists did (and presumably? still do) in Tactics; which is the only place I know them from I guess. Then I wanted to make sure they coudln't throw 3_+haste etc potions at one person and full heal them. So i was looking at the immediate action to limit it. In the scheme of things being able to throw a buncha tailored cures or potions at people in one round, while costing them their immediate/next swift action to use them is pretty even with the idea of a white mage just blasting everyone with restoritive magics.

Hum. I like the idea that either the chemist, or the recipiant can use their immediate action to use the item when thrown. That would ilimit things and make it still usuable and still actually keeping the good spirit of the ability from the games.
basically
Keep the notation about being able to throw any beneficial alchemical item (cause being able to throw softs, antidotes etc is good.) Or i guess throw any alchemical item (but only allow usage of beneificial via this ability) but i dont really want that bit.
"upon recieving the item, they may instantly use by means of a immediate action. If the chemists wish they may use their immediate action to apply the effects to a otherwise unable to target"
That replicates the video game pretty well in this. While bumping the ability up a bit from just "once a round" to make it actually useful in a scaled up game like d20 (where the actual base class from the game would be woefully sad)
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Thanks for the reply!

[Viladin]

I may have to do some wording and editing.

[Zwordsman]

Short version written for my own references later.

Alchemical Mixture: Either extend the time period to allow for preplaning, or increase acxtion economy to moveat 4 and later at swift. Allowing for easier use.

Throw potion: Either the ability to use items thrown (either chemist or catcher's action) or removing the BAB throwing and make it single target and takes immediate action (like the game)
Also allow throwing of any alchemical item (or limit for benefical)