Sonamancer

[Luphey]

I am very aware that it is not a casting class, and I will admit that I hadn't noticed that spells auto hit now. (Still playing as though damage spells are touch attacks with my group) And while black mages have more "attack options" they do eventually run out of MP, which can potentially cripple them in certain situations. Where as, even though Mach 10 is a full round action, it has unlimited uses.(So far)

Mach 10 - Damage wise, I still feel d12's are the way to go. Even if you keep the same average damage, the greater damage variation feels more balanced to me. The range though, 60ft still feels like a bit much at first level, but I'll get over it. Now I want to ask how criticals behave for this skill. Does a critical Maximize damage since you have this as a spell like ability, or does it double the damage dealt like a normal attack?

After reading the sonic strike ability again, I still feel its pretty strong. I am assuming that if you crit with your melee attack, only the weapon damage is affected correct?
I feel the ability has a lot of potential with the sona pool.(Maybe have an improved version of sonic strike that allows you to make your melee attack at half of your mach 10's range.)

Explosive relocation - If the damage is that negligible then why have it? I like the free 5ft step(that isn't a 5ft step). But I still feel that the feint effect works better flavor wise. Or another possibility, would be that the blast could have a chance to knock them prone and if it does, it deals the 1d4 damage.

Now, since you mentioned siege engines, maybe throw in a talent or 2 that makes your Sonic damage deal more to constructs, walls, etc? Back towards mach 10, if you bring the damage to d12's, you could raise it's hit die to a d10 to counteract the greater variation in damage. The extra health would also give the class a more siege engine like feel.

Again, not belittling your ideas, just throwin my own out there.

[dairius_chi]

Mach 10 was supposed to be something similar to a Chemist's Bombs, and the Warlock(3.5)'s Eldritch Blast. A spammable ranged touch attack that deals progressive damage, but by no means a game-ender.

60ft is the range of Eldritch Blast, and fits the 'siege engine' feel for the class. Black Mage spells also come with minor debilitation effects such as Weighted, or catching on fire, Mach 10 eventually gets something like this in the form of knockback and potentially falling prone, but only against creatures up to a certain size category.

1d12 and 2d6 are 'equal' but I would never use a Greataxe over a Greatsword. It's just the way my head works, I prefer average damage over a more common maximum. If Moogle wishes to shift to such a damage die that's his own prerogative, but I don't think that would be a balancing point. If anything 1d12 LOOKS a lot more powerful than 2d6. It isn't really, but the mind perceives it in such a way at first glance.

7d12 + cha mod is actually more than what we originally had.... as it is now Mach 10 caps out at 10d6(average 35) + Cha mod, what you're suggesting ends up with 7d12(average of 45.5) + Cha mod, almost 10 more average damage per blast. And 25 ft + 5ft/3 levels would end up with 55ft range, though I think you might have meant 5ft/level to get 120.

I'll admit the idea of channeling sonic energy through a melee weapon felt a little out of place, but perhaps that could be worked into a talent rather than a Class feature everyone gets.

The Metamagic feats were meant to be ways for the Sonamancer to burn through resources to boost their sonic abilities, but again I could see something like the 'Empower' Arcana that Red Mages(Magus) get in ffd20/PF. 6 and 12 were just eluding us to fill, and lots of other classes got bonus feats and such... this was just a slower progression. Fighter/Combat feats don't really fit for me, since a lot of feats that benefit ranged weapons (Such as Deadly Aim) don't work with ranged touch attacks. Still, I think we can do a bit better than just tacking on some metamagic feats... that much is true.

Explosive Reposition was meant to be a sort of 'counter attack' feature. Still- I like what you're bringing to the table... Mach 10 already has knockback and potentially falling prone. At 8th level when a creature provokes an AoO from the Sonamancer they can instead spend a Sona Point to deal 1d4 + Cha mod damage and shift 5ft as an immediate action. At 16th level she can do this whenever missed by a melee attack as well, but each time consumes an AoO(meaning you'd need Combat Reflexes to use it more than once).

Weapon Proficiencies: Hadn't thought on those yet. If we're removing Sound Strike as a built-in feature and making it more of a Talent to choose, then I'd say just simple weapons works fine. This isn't a warrior class, it's closer to the Warlock... some dude who tries to pretend he's a wizard with some neat stuff but is ultimately a one-trick pony.

On that note: Armor Proficiencies, Light armor, no shields. Certain features should only function when in light or no armor such as Sound Armor and any of the movement based ones.

We did already have a talent planned that let their sonic damage bypass some hardness, and deal full damage to objects since Paizo decided to make all energy damage(sonic included) simply do half damage to objects before applying hardness. Boring.

Criticals: Not sure whrere you heard that spell-like abilities only maximize, but if it involves an attack roll it can critical- and if no range is specified it's a 20/X2. So Mach 10 deals double damage on a critical, and for Sound Strike(whether kept as a feature or made into a talent) the Mach 10 damage WOULD be doubled (only doubled regardless of the multiplier on the weapon) just as with a Magus or Red Mage's Spellstrike.

Doing Sonic Strike at a range doesn't make a lot of sense unless it's a thrown weapon...

Feinting wouldn't do so much for this class. It's built for range, if you're getting ganged up on in melee the best course of action is to disengage- such as with a 5ft step, and retreat while the other melee characters beat up on your threat. This doesn't hold true for all Sonamancers, such as those who focus more on channeling sonic in melee or close range(Point Blank Shot), but it'd be for the 'standard' ones.

d10 HD wouldn't work. In PF all d6 classes have poor BAB, all d8 classes have average BAB, all d10 and d12 classes have full BAB. Only exceptions being a couple rare prestige classes. The Sonamancer does run off of attack rolls, but it;'s main source of damage is a Ranged Touch Attack, so average BAB was all it needed. Siege Engines are not traditionally that hardy, it's why they need range- if a catapault or trebuchet or ballistae had one gear, one rope, one joint messed with it'd ruin the whole device. Modern-day tanks are slightly more hardy but even they have very big weak points like getting stuff stuck in the treads.

The class is strong in areas and lacking in others, as it should be. Making it d10 HD and upping Mach 10's damage would be taking it a little over the top... but you've had a lot of good insights and opinions and an outside opinion is necessary to get this in working order.

[TheFrozenMoogle]

So, Talents. To explain to those who don't understand what we mean by "talents" this class is pretty much a one trick pony. Position yourself so you can spam Mach 10 like crazy. SO to make this class do a tad more, I decided that tricks or talents were the way to go, to modify Mach 10 in certain ways. For example we have one that makes it a cone, except with 30 ft range. We also have an area of attack with a 15 ft radius. Someothers include the ability to make mach 10 a 250 ft long range attack, or perhaps even the ability to summon a sonic elemental, with HP equal to your class level, and deals the same amount of damage as your Mach 10, but Mach 10 can no longer be used while the sonic elemental is alive.

[Luphey]

@dairius - I must not have posted it but I had conceded on increasing the damage by 1 die for mach 10. And the warlock comparison made it click for me. I was havin trouble wrappin my brain around what at first glance, looked like a semi melee class. Also as to my reasoning for using a d12 for greater damage variation, is that sound is inconsistent. And by that I mean, through different temperatures, materials, and humidity levels, sound may travel farther or not as far. Hence the variation in damage.

I think, you could add some talents that allow your Mach 10 to deal damage to armor/ weapons and to HP at the same time. Or something along those lines.

Maybe something like: "If you successfully land a hit with mach 10, you may choose to split the damage in half, between the target's armor, and HP." I'm not too familiar with hardness and material HP so I don't know how well it would work but it would be an interesting concept.

[TheFrozenMoogle]

Just a show of some talent ideas, to help people understand what I'm sort of thinking for the class.

*Sonic Elemental, at the cost of two sona points, you can summon a sonic elemental, while the sonic elemental is active, you can not use your mach 10. The sonic elemental's to hit, is based off of your mach 10's to hit, and uses mach 10 damage for weapon damage. The sonic elemental has a standard melee attack, that criticals on a natural twenty. Its HP is your sonamancer level + your charisma mod. You may at any time dismiss the sonic elemental, as a free action.

*Hymn of Rejuvenation, at the cost of three sona points, you can turn your mach 10, into a healing symphony, encouraging allies around you to ignore, and regenerate their wounds. This ability effects all allies withing sixty feet of you. They heal 1/2 the damage your mach 10 would do, and gain 5 temporary hp. Minimum Class Level 5

*Vocal Destruction, if you take this talent, you may, instead of spending one sona point, may spend five hp instead. By utilizing your own hyper voice, you release it within yourself, to channel your abilities..at the cost of your own health.

*Hideous Sound, at the cost of two sona points, you may amplify the damage of any sonic damage source you control. If you do, add an additional 1d4 + charisma mod damage to your damage. If your sonic ability criticals, add this damage AFTER the critical.

*Banshee's Wail, at the cost of one sona point, you may release mach 10 as a bellowing wail from your mouth, spreading out. Banshee's Wail will always be one half the range of your standard Mach 10. (Example, At level 20, Banshee's Wail would be a 60 ft cone, Otherwise, it is a 30 ft cone.) Enemies hit this way, are allowed a fortitude save for half damage. The DC is 10 +1/2 class level + charisma mod + 2

*Sonic Discharge, at the cost of one sona point, you may release mach 10 as a giant shock-wave, effecting all enemies within one-fourth of your mach 10's natural range. Enemies hit this way, are allowed a fortitude save for half damage. The DC is 10 +1/2 class level + charisma mod + 2

[TheFrozenMoogle]

Favored Races (examples..really needing help here)
Moogle: 1/2 bonus on perception checks made with hearing
Vierra: Gains 1/6 of a sonamancer talent
Elvaan: 1/2 bonus on perception checks made with hearing
Gria: +1/2 damage to all sonic sources
Aegyl: 1/4 bonus to the sonamancer's sona pool

Also, the class is almost finished, aside from this, talents, and some feats related to sonamancer's..although I pretty much mean "Extra Talent" and "Sona Surge" (Ergo a bigger Sona Pool)

[TheFrozenMoogle]

I updated the Lore! As this update goes, please refer to the first post in this thread.

[TheFrozenMoogle]

Update incoming!

Sonic Elemantal Trait removed, soon to be changed with new trait.

Sonic Surge, at the cost of one sona point, you may add two sonic damage any sonic damage source you control. This damage is multiplied on a critical.

Ghostly Wail, at the cost of two sona points, you may choose for your mach 10 to deal wisdom damage. If you do, reduce the damage down to a 1d8+cha, with no additional modifiers.

Sight of Sound, if you take this trait, in pure darkness you are considered to have blindsight, up only to 30 feet. This only applies as long as you have at least one point in your sona pool.

[TheFrozenMoogle]

Buffed out the races again, getting closer and closer to a finished class. Also, if anyone was wanting a campaign with custom classes just send me a pm,

[TheFrozenMoogle]

Tested Mach 10's Damage scaling. Early levels, a sonamancer is an amazing striker. Later levels, it kinda falls off in damage, but makes up for it with its semi versatility. Not to mention its pretty decent tanking capability.

[TheFrozenMoogle]

Updated, And, questions for those still following this thread..

Would you, as a DM, allow for ranged sunder attacks to go through? At little to no penalty? Or is this way too overpowered. Just curious.