12-11-2017, 03:54 PM
So before I come to my question, I first want to acknowledge that the Red Mage has some important differences from the Magus(which evidently provided the chassis it was built on). The Red Mage's Spellstrike works with Melee Touch and Ranged Touch spells as opposed to the Magus' only working on Melee Touch spells(unless he has the "Close Range" arcana that lets you do Ranged Touch as well)...though I guess it kinda has to, since there's no offensive Melee Touch spell on the Red Mage spell list.
There's also the general changes to the magic system(a blend of psionic's power points, spontaneous casting, wizard scroll learning and sharply restricted themed spell lists) which makes the Red Mage both more and less powerful than the Magus in certain aspects(better metamagic potential on paper since you can eventually spend 10 MP per spell, the equivalent of a 10th level spell while Magus metamagic can't exceed their normal slot cap of 6; worse flexibility and spell choice since the Magus' Spell Blending and Greater Spell Access provide access to a list of literally hundreds of spells etc.).
So yeah, the Red Mage and Magus do differ in quite a few ways, but I wanna look specifically at Spellstrike potential between the two here.
Your usual Magus intent on doing straight up melee damage does so by combining Spell Combat with Spellstrike, casting Shocking Grasp and wailing away.
Shocking Grasp normally scales up to 5d6 for an average of 17.5 damage.
Intensified Shocking Grasp scales up to 10d6 for an average of 35 damage as a 2nd level spell.
Intensified Empowered Shocking Grasp scales up to 10d6+(10d6*0.5) for an average of 52.5 damage as a 4th level spell.
Intensified Empowered Maximized Shocking Grasp scales up to 60+(10d6*0.5) for an average of 77.5 damage as a 7th level spell.
Magical Lineage is usually a given on builds who do this(reducing the final metamagic-ed spell level by one) and if you feel like being cheesy you can add Wayang Spellhunter(reducing the final spell level by another one) and picking up Spell Perfection(late as it comes online) lets you use one metamagic for free.
So your level 20 Spell Combat routine would be Full Attack + Intensified Empowered Maximized Shocking Grasp Spellstrike(as a 2nd level spell) + Intensified Empowered Maximized Quickened Shocking Grasp Spellstrike(as a 5th level spell). That's 155 average spell damage(if you don't crit) plus whatever your full attack does.
If you really want to burst/nova, you can combine the Close Range, Spell Blending, Empowered Magic and Maximized Magic Arcanas to Spellstrike a Empowered Maximized Disintegrate(for 310) and then follow up with a Intensified Empowered Maximized Quickened Shocking Grasp Spellstrike(for 77.5) for a total of 387.5(and heaven forbid you crit on the disintegrate) plus your melee attacks costing you a 5th and 6th level spell slot as well as two once-per-day features).
Red Mages have the Aero/Blizzard/Fire/Stone/Thunder/Water - I/II/III lines for Spellstriking.
These scale...pretty badly.
Tier I scales up to 1d6+5 for an average of 8.5 damage.
Tier II scales up to 3d6+10 for an average of 20.5 damage as a 2nd level spell.
Tier III scales up to scales up to 5d6+15 for an average of 32.5 damage as a 3rd level spell.
Both the Intensified and Maximized metamagic feats interact poorly with these spells. Intensified actually does nothing on them, since they have no scaling damage dice(only a scaling modifier) and Maximized can only affect the dice portion(wasting about half the feat). Only Empowered works as usual(since it affects both dice and modifier damage).
So in comparison a Intensified Empowered Maximized Thunder III does an average of 45+[(5d6+15)*0.5]=61.25 for 8 MP.
Cost-equivalent to an 8th level spell slot, it loses both in damage and resource consumption to the Magus' Shocking grasp(technically even if we wouldn't apply metamagic cost reducers to Shocking Grasp).
Add a Empowered Maximized Quickened Thunder III for a second Spellstrike to compare the two attack routines and we have the Red Mage at 122.5 spell damage + melee for 20 MP and the Magus at 155 spell damage + melee for a 2nd and a 5th level slot(equivalent to 7 MP).
For burst/nova potential, the best option for the magus seems to be grabbing Shadowfire Ray from the Black Mage list via Advanced Learning and then casting it as a Intensified Empowered Maximized(via Ruby Arcana) Spellstrike for 120+[(20d6)*0.5]=155 and then a Intensified Empowered Quickened(via Ruby Arcana and/or Quick Cast) Spellstrike for another 20d6+[(20d6)*0.5]=105, overall 260 spell damage + melee for the cost of 18 MP, a once-per-day and a X-per-day feature.
There's minor things like Ruby Knowledge(and Mastery) that add a few points, but not enough to really change things.
So the Red Mage is behind the Magus in both damage and resource efficiency.
Additionally, melee touch spells(of which the Red Mage has none, while the Magus staple Shocking Grasp is one) allow for utilizing the Holding the Charge rule
3.X has a myriad of rules and complex interactions between its component parts and it's easily possible to make minor and/or major changes to some aspect without fully seeing all implications this has on related mechanics down the road. A third party taking a look from outside can often bring a new perspective to things the creator takes for granted. I'm a huge fan of Fighter/Mage hybrids in general so they're usually the first thing I flock to and analyze in RPGs.
So my question basically is...is all of this working as intended? Am I missing anything important?
Oh and great job on this in general, really enjoyed reading through the material.
There's also the general changes to the magic system(a blend of psionic's power points, spontaneous casting, wizard scroll learning and sharply restricted themed spell lists) which makes the Red Mage both more and less powerful than the Magus in certain aspects(better metamagic potential on paper since you can eventually spend 10 MP per spell, the equivalent of a 10th level spell while Magus metamagic can't exceed their normal slot cap of 6; worse flexibility and spell choice since the Magus' Spell Blending and Greater Spell Access provide access to a list of literally hundreds of spells etc.).
So yeah, the Red Mage and Magus do differ in quite a few ways, but I wanna look specifically at Spellstrike potential between the two here.
Your usual Magus intent on doing straight up melee damage does so by combining Spell Combat with Spellstrike, casting Shocking Grasp and wailing away.
Shocking Grasp normally scales up to 5d6 for an average of 17.5 damage.
Intensified Shocking Grasp scales up to 10d6 for an average of 35 damage as a 2nd level spell.
Intensified Empowered Shocking Grasp scales up to 10d6+(10d6*0.5) for an average of 52.5 damage as a 4th level spell.
Intensified Empowered Maximized Shocking Grasp scales up to 60+(10d6*0.5) for an average of 77.5 damage as a 7th level spell.
Magical Lineage is usually a given on builds who do this(reducing the final metamagic-ed spell level by one) and if you feel like being cheesy you can add Wayang Spellhunter(reducing the final spell level by another one) and picking up Spell Perfection(late as it comes online) lets you use one metamagic for free.
So your level 20 Spell Combat routine would be Full Attack + Intensified Empowered Maximized Shocking Grasp Spellstrike(as a 2nd level spell) + Intensified Empowered Maximized Quickened Shocking Grasp Spellstrike(as a 5th level spell). That's 155 average spell damage(if you don't crit) plus whatever your full attack does.
If you really want to burst/nova, you can combine the Close Range, Spell Blending, Empowered Magic and Maximized Magic Arcanas to Spellstrike a Empowered Maximized Disintegrate(for 310) and then follow up with a Intensified Empowered Maximized Quickened Shocking Grasp Spellstrike(for 77.5) for a total of 387.5(and heaven forbid you crit on the disintegrate) plus your melee attacks costing you a 5th and 6th level spell slot as well as two once-per-day features).
Red Mages have the Aero/Blizzard/Fire/Stone/Thunder/Water - I/II/III lines for Spellstriking.
These scale...pretty badly.
Tier I scales up to 1d6+5 for an average of 8.5 damage.
Tier II scales up to 3d6+10 for an average of 20.5 damage as a 2nd level spell.
Tier III scales up to scales up to 5d6+15 for an average of 32.5 damage as a 3rd level spell.
Both the Intensified and Maximized metamagic feats interact poorly with these spells. Intensified actually does nothing on them, since they have no scaling damage dice(only a scaling modifier) and Maximized can only affect the dice portion(wasting about half the feat). Only Empowered works as usual(since it affects both dice and modifier damage).
So in comparison a Intensified Empowered Maximized Thunder III does an average of 45+[(5d6+15)*0.5]=61.25 for 8 MP.
Cost-equivalent to an 8th level spell slot, it loses both in damage and resource consumption to the Magus' Shocking grasp(technically even if we wouldn't apply metamagic cost reducers to Shocking Grasp).
Add a Empowered Maximized Quickened Thunder III for a second Spellstrike to compare the two attack routines and we have the Red Mage at 122.5 spell damage + melee for 20 MP and the Magus at 155 spell damage + melee for a 2nd and a 5th level slot(equivalent to 7 MP).
For burst/nova potential, the best option for the magus seems to be grabbing Shadowfire Ray from the Black Mage list via Advanced Learning and then casting it as a Intensified Empowered Maximized(via Ruby Arcana) Spellstrike for 120+[(20d6)*0.5]=155 and then a Intensified Empowered Quickened(via Ruby Arcana and/or Quick Cast) Spellstrike for another 20d6+[(20d6)*0.5]=105, overall 260 spell damage + melee for the cost of 18 MP, a once-per-day and a X-per-day feature.
There's minor things like Ruby Knowledge(and Mastery) that add a few points, but not enough to really change things.
So the Red Mage is behind the Magus in both damage and resource efficiency.
Additionally, melee touch spells(of which the Red Mage has none, while the Magus staple Shocking Grasp is one) allow for utilizing the Holding the Charge rule
Quote:Holding the Charge: If you don't discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the charge indefinitely. You can continue to make touch attacks round after round. If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates. You can touch one friend as a standard action or up to six friends as a full-round action. Alternatively, you may make a normal unarmed attack (or an attack with a natural weapon) while holding a charge. In this case, you aren't considered armed and you provoke attacks of opportunity as normal for the attack. If your unarmed attack or natural weapon attack normally doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity, neither does this attack. If the attack hits, you deal normal damage for your unarmed attack or natural weapon and the spell discharges. If the attack misses, you are still holding the charge.which basically allows the Magus to keep attacking after his initial Spellstrike misses until he eventually hits to discharge his spell, whereas the Red Mage will have immediately wasted his ranged touch spell as soon as the Spellstrike misses(another HUGE advantage in favor of the Magus).
3.X has a myriad of rules and complex interactions between its component parts and it's easily possible to make minor and/or major changes to some aspect without fully seeing all implications this has on related mechanics down the road. A third party taking a look from outside can often bring a new perspective to things the creator takes for granted. I'm a huge fan of Fighter/Mage hybrids in general so they're usually the first thing I flock to and analyze in RPGs.
So my question basically is...is all of this working as intended? Am I missing anything important?
Oh and great job on this in general, really enjoyed reading through the material.