10-05-2015, 03:52 PM
For the Dilettante, I actually have them get 4th-level casting instead of 6th, and 6th-level maneuvers. They do, however, have spells from the get-go and full caster levels, so they don't get casting like a Dark/Holy Knight. They still get to have relevant spells at a decent level (4th-level casting is still very significant, and you're getting it six levels before the Xxxx Knights do) though, and 6th-level maneuvers are where they can still be relevant in the upper levels. I went with the lesser spellcasting like that because there are two Ruby Arcana you can take that will let you use strike maneuvers with either Spell Combat or Spellstrike, and although you can't use them in conjunction with each other unless you have both of them. There are plenty of other Arcana that are quite useful as well, so you have to decide whether or not you want to spend them to wring as much damage as you can out of your limited spells and maneuvers. They aren't going to be getting the smash-a-mountain-into-dust maneuvers, and they aren't getting their strongest blasting spells either, and so they can still be doing about as much damage with these in concert with each other as a full initiator would be doing with their 9th-level maneuvers, which keeps them viable as a primary source of damage by the end of the adventure.
I still need to specify what energy type that the Elemental Flux maneuvers get changed to when you attune yourself. I think that, for example, if you choose to attune yourself to either Ice or Water, you still use the Water version of the maneuvers for the extra effects, just that the elemental damage is whichever one of the two you chose? Similarly for Air, you would do either Lightning or Wind damage (you can still only attune yourself to either Lightning or Wind, you don't get both when you choose to make your maneuvers use Air effects).
And, back to the Holy Knight:
Stances: These will, admittedly, seem kind of wonky, but I'm trying to get them to be as close to the powers the angels that the stances represent have used in real world scriptures, such as the Seraphim having bodies that shine so brightly that if they did not use their six wings to cover all but their faces, those who look upon them have their eyes melt out. I'm actually doing something similar with the Tenebris Angelus, giving them stances based off of the Malebranche (including our four beloved Elemental Fiends).
-Principality's Bass: Honestly, your suggestion sounds a lot more balanced than I had originally done, and still keeps the same feel. Got it switched around.
-Throne's Mezzo-Soprano: I went and made this one scale, to the point that you can eventually get a total of +30 ft. at 17th, which doesn't really seem like much by that point, since you've had people able to fly for more than half of your career, and fly faster than you could normally run in battle yourself. Lay On Hands expenditure gets you another +20 ft. (might make it another +10 ft.) and grants your buddies within 10 ft. of your starting point a move action. Any other opinions on this would be welcome.
-Archangel's Baritone: I assume that because the stance lets you use a counter as a free action against evil enemies, it's already apparent that it's supposed to be used on your enemy's turn? There aren't any counters I can think of that are geared for usage on your own turn, since they require a trigger of some sort.
-Seraph's Contralto: It's supposed to apply once per maneuver; I'd designed it as something of an alternative to Smite Evil, albeit somewhat weaker (so far as I know, since it's bonus elemental damage, which is subject to things like resistances and absorption, rather than the straight extra damage that Smite Evil gives) in a couple ways. Clarified with a little splort of text at the end there.
-Cherub's Tenor: Thanks. I'd gone and based it off of the power of the 6th-level Silver Crane stance that gets you straight-up Fast Healing 5. Since this one doesn't restore as much health (initially, at least), and you have to spend Lay On Hands to get the regeneration, having it be one level lower doesn't seem to hurt much. Stance of the crane knight, which is also 5th-level, is Hell to compete with (DR 10/evil, 60 ft. fly speed, and something else I'm forgetting), so temporary regeneration doesn't sound that overpowered in comparison.
-Dominion's Countertenor: This one having the usage limit was based off of the Immortal Fortitude stance in Tome of Battle, which let you avoid death three times before you automatically disengaged. In my opinion, it doesn't really need to scale all that much anyway, since augmenting it with Lay On Hands can cover pretty much any part of that on its own.
-Virtue's Soprano: This one I intended to shut off all move actions, but be a save-per-round thing. It's about as effective of a lockdown as the Warder's Defensive Focus ability, fondly referred to by many as the "Zone of Nope". This requires a save, and is also supernatural, so getting it as a stance that you have to be pretty far up there to get seems fair enough to me.
Faithful Protection: I thiiink I got it down at this point now, but I'm not entirely sure. Another read on it would be welcomed.
Voices of the Gods: This boost only lasts for one round now. So yeah, you could keep them debuffed pretty well for that one round, but then you'd have to recover your maneuvers, and that round would be when the effect ends (and thereby lets the enemies have their turn again), and then have to use it again. Two rounds would make it still be very powerful, but not as bad as three, since they'd still have their turn come up the same round that you could initiate it again; if two sounds fair, then I'll switch it to that. The nausea effect, which would be the real killer, has a save attached to it and it only lasts for one round though, so that wouldn't be quite so powerful of a lockdown technique.
Holy Vanquishing Strike: That was pretty much exactly what I was aiming for. I based it off of Silver Crane's capstone maneuver, which has pretty similar effects, and is just as much of an OH SHI- for pretty much any bad guy. The upside to this one over the Silver Crane capstone is that it can be used with ranged attacks as well, although the damage is lessened.
I still need to specify what energy type that the Elemental Flux maneuvers get changed to when you attune yourself. I think that, for example, if you choose to attune yourself to either Ice or Water, you still use the Water version of the maneuvers for the extra effects, just that the elemental damage is whichever one of the two you chose? Similarly for Air, you would do either Lightning or Wind damage (you can still only attune yourself to either Lightning or Wind, you don't get both when you choose to make your maneuvers use Air effects).
And, back to the Holy Knight:
Stances: These will, admittedly, seem kind of wonky, but I'm trying to get them to be as close to the powers the angels that the stances represent have used in real world scriptures, such as the Seraphim having bodies that shine so brightly that if they did not use their six wings to cover all but their faces, those who look upon them have their eyes melt out. I'm actually doing something similar with the Tenebris Angelus, giving them stances based off of the Malebranche (including our four beloved Elemental Fiends).
-Principality's Bass: Honestly, your suggestion sounds a lot more balanced than I had originally done, and still keeps the same feel. Got it switched around.
-Throne's Mezzo-Soprano: I went and made this one scale, to the point that you can eventually get a total of +30 ft. at 17th, which doesn't really seem like much by that point, since you've had people able to fly for more than half of your career, and fly faster than you could normally run in battle yourself. Lay On Hands expenditure gets you another +20 ft. (might make it another +10 ft.) and grants your buddies within 10 ft. of your starting point a move action. Any other opinions on this would be welcome.
-Archangel's Baritone: I assume that because the stance lets you use a counter as a free action against evil enemies, it's already apparent that it's supposed to be used on your enemy's turn? There aren't any counters I can think of that are geared for usage on your own turn, since they require a trigger of some sort.
-Seraph's Contralto: It's supposed to apply once per maneuver; I'd designed it as something of an alternative to Smite Evil, albeit somewhat weaker (so far as I know, since it's bonus elemental damage, which is subject to things like resistances and absorption, rather than the straight extra damage that Smite Evil gives) in a couple ways. Clarified with a little splort of text at the end there.
-Cherub's Tenor: Thanks. I'd gone and based it off of the power of the 6th-level Silver Crane stance that gets you straight-up Fast Healing 5. Since this one doesn't restore as much health (initially, at least), and you have to spend Lay On Hands to get the regeneration, having it be one level lower doesn't seem to hurt much. Stance of the crane knight, which is also 5th-level, is Hell to compete with (DR 10/evil, 60 ft. fly speed, and something else I'm forgetting), so temporary regeneration doesn't sound that overpowered in comparison.
-Dominion's Countertenor: This one having the usage limit was based off of the Immortal Fortitude stance in Tome of Battle, which let you avoid death three times before you automatically disengaged. In my opinion, it doesn't really need to scale all that much anyway, since augmenting it with Lay On Hands can cover pretty much any part of that on its own.
-Virtue's Soprano: This one I intended to shut off all move actions, but be a save-per-round thing. It's about as effective of a lockdown as the Warder's Defensive Focus ability, fondly referred to by many as the "Zone of Nope". This requires a save, and is also supernatural, so getting it as a stance that you have to be pretty far up there to get seems fair enough to me.
Faithful Protection: I thiiink I got it down at this point now, but I'm not entirely sure. Another read on it would be welcomed.
Voices of the Gods: This boost only lasts for one round now. So yeah, you could keep them debuffed pretty well for that one round, but then you'd have to recover your maneuvers, and that round would be when the effect ends (and thereby lets the enemies have their turn again), and then have to use it again. Two rounds would make it still be very powerful, but not as bad as three, since they'd still have their turn come up the same round that you could initiate it again; if two sounds fair, then I'll switch it to that. The nausea effect, which would be the real killer, has a save attached to it and it only lasts for one round though, so that wouldn't be quite so powerful of a lockdown technique.
Holy Vanquishing Strike: That was pretty much exactly what I was aiming for. I based it off of Silver Crane's capstone maneuver, which has pretty similar effects, and is just as much of an OH SHI- for pretty much any bad guy. The upside to this one over the Silver Crane capstone is that it can be used with ranged attacks as well, although the damage is lessened.