Official Update Thread

[Viladin]

1. So with the Any Prime Number choice, do i choose a single prime number when i get the ability, or do I make the choice of prime number whenever an ability activates that calls for a Number?

Any prime number.

2. Also when it say "at 1st level and every other level after" does that mean 1st, 2nd, 3rd...etc or does it mean 1st, 3rd, 5th...etc? (I don't know how common it is anywhere else but the phrase "every other" can mean to count by two's where I'm from.)

It means 1st, 3rd, 5th... etc. I do need to fix an error though, The Numbers only has 4, so it should be 1st, 4th, 7th, and 10th instead of every other level.

3. Do the bonus die to damage granted from the Black Magery class feature Increased Damage stack with the bonus die to damage for elemental spells from the Scholar's Dark Arts?

Yes.

4. Under Magic Descriptors, it lists Elemental as a School. Does that mean it is compatible with the Pathfinder feat Spell Focus? If so, that seems to defeat the purpose of the new Elemental Focus feat.

Not compatible. I'll have to make a note on Elemental Focus feat.

5. With the Black Mage class ability Dark Affliction, does the penalty to the saving throw happen before or after they make their saving throw for the spell? i.e If I cast thunder on someone and the DC for the saving throw against the Static status effect is 15, would they roll their save and then take the penalty to saves vs Static, or would they take the penalty to save vs Static first and effectively have to beat a DC 16?

After.

Sorry for so many questions! It isn't often that you actually get to get answers directly from the person who created the stuff you are using.

Again, thanks a ton!

Not a problem. Happy to answer.

[princeofmirth]

Sweet! Thanks a ton!

One last question: So let's say I go with four levels of scholar and three levels of black mage, then go into the Arithmetician prestige class. When I get to second level in Arithmetician, I choose to increase my effective scholar level for my white magic class and my effective black mage level for my black magic class. My intelligence score is 22 and my wisdom score is 14. So:
9 for 22 intelligence for level 5 scholar +
3 for 14 wisdom for level 5 scholar +
8 for base MP for level 5 scholar +
6 for 22 intelligence for level 4 black mage +
7 for base MP for level 4 black mage =
33 total MP?

Edit because I dont want to double post:
One last (really for real) question:
If I use mathmatical casting to hit multiple creatures with a spell that requires an attack roll, do I make an attack roll for each creature or one attack roll for all?

Thanks!

[Viladin]

Sweet! Thanks a ton!

One last question: So let's say I go with four levels of scholar and three levels of black mage, then go into the Arithmetician prestige class. When I get to second level in Arithmetician, I choose to increase my effective scholar level for my white magic class and my effective black mage level for my black magic class. My intelligence score is 22 and my wisdom score is 14. So:
9 for 22 intelligence for level 5 scholar +
3 for 14 wisdom for level 5 scholar +
8 for base MP for level 5 scholar +
6 for 22 intelligence for level 4 black mage +
7 for base MP for level 4 black mage =
33 total MP?

Sounds about right.

[dairius_chi]

EDIT: Nvm, I read something wrong on Scholar

[Viladin]

Minor update: Converted another PRC into an archetype, made some changes in some classes and archetypes, and added new Technology Gear and Lifestyles.

Classes

Blue Mage - Fixed a minor grammar error.
Knight - Switched around Armor Training and Active Defense levels.
Red Mage - Nerfed the amount of uses per day for Convert.
Time Mage - Made Temporal Hiccup able to affect allies and enemies.

Prestige Classes

Arithmetician - Fixed a minor error for the Numbers. Changed it so that any two different spell-casting classes can access the prestige class.

Archetypes

Druid - A new Beastmaster archetype that loses all rage powers and abilities for access to Geomancer's spells.
Fencer - Converted Fencer PRC into a Thief archetype.
Generalist - Nerf a few of the archetype's abilities.
Sentinel - Upgraded some abilities.

Races

Shindroid - Made some minor changes to their alternate racial traits.

Spells

Pesky Time Shudder spell is now in the spell description.

Miscellaneous

Added new techological gear and lifestyles. Will be working on vehicles and airships soon.

[princeofmirth]

Quick question for the Time Mage's 0th level spell "Moment".

What exactly is a refocus action? I can't find anything about it in pathfinder. Closest thing that I've found is from dnd 3.0 where a refocus action was a full round action that set your initiative as if you had rolled a 20.

[Viladin]

Quick question for the Time Mage's 0th level spell "Moment".

What exactly is a refocus action? I can't find anything about it in pathfinder. Closest thing that I've found is from dnd 3.0 where a refocus action was a full round action that set your initiative as if you had rolled a 20.

Thats a whoopsy on my part. I will have to edit it.

[dairius_chi]

Uhh, Vil? Extra MP- I remember when you first copied it from tes's system it mentioned both treating the casting attribute as four higher, and that that basically gave 1 MP per level (since it followed the progression of Power Points), but you confirmed at the time that it was meant to give +1 MP/level. You later removed Mental Toughness so people couldn't take both for a ton of extra MP, but now you've also changed Extra MP to be the less-potent +4 casting to casting stat?

This means it really only benefits characters with incredibly high casting attributes, at way later levels... there's no MP support for people who aren't maximizing their casting attribute, who are really the ones who need it most.

I'd really implore you return it to the originally intended +1 MP/level... it's less benefit for the level 20 Pure Casters with 30+ in their casting stat, but they really don't need that much help, and it better aids partial casters like the Red Mage, Holy/Dark Knight, etc.

[Viladin]

Uhh, Vil? Extra MP- I remember when you first copied it from tes's system it mentioned both treating the casting attribute as four higher, and that that basically gave 1 MP per level (since it followed the progression of Power Points), but you confirmed at the time that it was meant to give +1 MP/level. You later removed Mental Toughness so people couldn't take both for a ton of extra MP, but now you've also changed Extra MP to be the less-potent +4 casting to casting stat?

This means it really only benefits characters with incredibly high casting attributes, at way later levels... there's no MP support for people who aren't maximizing their casting attribute, who are really the ones who need it most.

I'd really implore you return it to the originally intended +1 MP/level... it's less benefit for the level 20 Pure Casters with 30+ in their casting stat, but they really don't need that much help, and it better aids partial casters like the Red Mage, Holy/Dark Knight, etc.

No way. Its fine as it is.

[dairius_chi]

It really isn't, I mean I haven't even used it on my Mages in a while but a friend of mine is building a Holy Knight and when he said he'd go for Wild Talent to get some MP I thought he was crazy. "2 MP isn't worth a feat, dude... just take Extra MP." And when he copy-pasted the edited one something seemed off.

Level 5 with new Extra MP:
Casting Attribute 16: Only gives you 1 MP...
Casting Attribute 18: Only gives 3 MP...
Casting Attribute 20: Gives 5 MP, you'd need Casting stat of 20 for it to offer the same benefits it once did

Level 10 with new Extra MP:
Casting Attribute 16: Gives 10 MP, bit odd that it keeps up...
Casting Attribute 18: Only gives 8 MP, why would it be weaker for someone with a higher stat now?
Casting Attribute 20: Gives 5 MP, this is all over the place...

Level 15 with new Extra MP:
Casting Attribute 16: Gives 10 MP, it has ceased progression...
Casting Attribute 18: Gives 14 MP, close to what it once did at this level...
Casting Attribute 20: Gives 18 MP, even more than the old feat...

Level 20 with the new Extra MP:
Casting Attribute 16: Gives 10 MP, Nothing in over 10 levels at this point...
Casting attribute 18: Gives 14 MP, has also ceased to increase further...
Casting Attribute 20: Gives 18 MP, even this has ceased...

If your stat is higher, the returns are higher, to the point where people with 24+ will get even more than the old feat once gave at level 20.

I only included the lower numbers because, as stated, Extra MP used to be most beneficial to the lower casting classes. It's bonuses are now erratic with unexpected returns at certain levels and cutoff points for people who can't afford to make their casting stat into something amazing. If the goal was to give less MP you only did that for the classes that already HAVE less MP, the returns are quickly outweighing what you once got for it if you have your casting mod as your main focus, like a Black Mage, White Mage, Necromancer, etc... would.

It's become a case of the rich get richer, but with MP. This system worked for tes's because with Power Points it really was just +1/level. Clean, stable, didn't require any special recalculations from one level to the next... with this MP system it's just messy, and imbalanced.

[Viladin]

You miss the point. There is no feat whatsoever in Pathfinder that grants additional spells.

[dairius_chi]

I already told you my thoughts on this at the game today, but if you're really using that logic you should remove it entirely. I'd rather there be no feat than a messy and power-biased one, personally. I just don't see why you'd keep it around if it favors the builds that already get the most MP...

[Viladin]

I already told you my thoughts on this at the game today, but if you're really using that logic you should remove it entirely. I'd rather there be no feat than a messy and power-biased one, personally. I just don't see why you'd keep it around if it favors the builds that already get the most MP...

It favors all MP-based classes.

[dairius_chi]

A Red Mage, Holy/Dark Knight, any Partial Caster isn't going to have the Int of a Black Mage, the Wis of a White Mage, not unless they completely abandon their combat roles. This feat offers larger returns for people with higher casting mods, who are already more likely to be of the classes that have 9th level casting.

It's just not as worth taking for the partial casters, who are sadly the classes that need extra MP the most given how small their pools can be. I mean if you can only afford a 16 in your casting attribute, which for more standard pt buy games is not uncommon, you wouldn't get any bonus MP increase beyond 9th level...

In the case of the 16-17 Casting Attribute you'd normally have 6 bonus MP, this feat gives you (starting at 9th level) 10 more on top of that, nice for the level but it doesn't increase beyond that point. While characters with a natural or enhanced Casting Attribute of 24+ often get as much as 22-27 bonus MP, more than the old feat gave when it was 1/level.

It gives less now to the characters with lower attributes, and more to the characters with higher attributes. The change this feat has undergone is now penalizing people who cannot afford to focus on their casting attribute, you're crippling the slowest runners and taxing the middle and lower class while the rich get richer >.>

This would be like if Toughness gave more HP to Barbarians than it did to Wizards, or gave more HP to characters with higher constitution... does that sound like it's a fair feat?

[Viladin]

A Red Mage, Holy/Dark Knight, any Partial Caster isn't going to have the Int of a Black Mage, the Wis of a White Mage, not unless they completely abandon their combat roles. This feat offers larger returns for people with higher casting mods, who are already more likely to be of the classes that have 9th level casting.

It's just not as worth taking for the partial casters, who are sadly the classes that need extra MP the most given how small their pools can be. I mean if you can only afford a 16 in your casting attribute, which for more standard pt buy games is not uncommon, you wouldn't get any bonus MP increase beyond 9th level...

In the case of the 16-17 Casting Attribute you'd normally have 6 bonus MP, this feat gives you (starting at 9th level) 10 more on top of that, nice for the level but it doesn't increase beyond that point. While characters with a natural or enhanced Casting Attribute of 24+ often get as much as 22-27 bonus MP, more than the old feat gave when it was 1/level.

It gives less now to the characters with lower attributes, and more to the characters with higher attributes. The change this feat has undergone is now penalizing people who cannot afford to focus on their casting attribute, you're crippling the slowest runners and taxing the middle and lower class while the rich get richer >.>

This would be like if Toughness gave more HP to Barbarians than it did to Wizards, or gave more HP to characters with higher constitution... does that sound like it's a fair feat?

Never compare HPs to MPs, it just doesn't make sense in terms of balance. The fact that they gain more MP at all is an incredible feat. There's nothing like it in Pathfinder.

[dairius_chi]

I don't see why they can't be compared- HP is a resource you need to live and continue to be useful, MP is a resource magic users need to continue to use their class features... MP can also be used to create HP.

The simple truth is feats don't do this, with varying degrees of returns based on your stats. There are ones like Power Attack which are based on BAB, alright that's cool, that's controlled by your class you know what you're getting into... there isn't a feat that makes Power Attack more beneficial for people with higher strength, having a higher strength already covers that.

Having a higher casting attribute already gives you more MP, why does this feat further compound upon that to make the gap between you and the lower attribute person with the SAME FEAT even larger?

[Viladin]

I don't see why they can't be compared- HP is a resource you need to live and continue to be useful, MP is a resource magic users need to continue to use their class features... MP can also be used to create HP.

The simple truth is feats don't do this, with varying degrees of returns based on your stats. There are ones like Power Attack which are based on BAB, alright that's cool, that's controlled by your class you know what you're getting into... there isn't a feat that makes Power Attack more beneficial for people with higher strength, having a higher strength already covers that.

Having a higher casting attribute already gives you more MP, why does this feat further compound upon that to make the gap between you and the lower attribute person with the SAME FEAT even larger?

1 MP does not equal 1 HP, in terms of balance.

As far as everything else goes, there is nothing stopping anymore from adjusting your starting stats to gain the same amount of MP from Extra MP.

[dairius_chi]

It's not a fair feat, feats don't give variable returns based on your attributes... if you can't recognize that then I'm wasting my time.

[silverwerret]

Actually Vil if you look at Pathfinder feats, a bunch of them give extra effects, granting they are all static, such as extra bombs/hexes and the like, and yes while there isn't one to give additional spells, they have plenty for granting spell-like abilities and extra ones at that. And while 1HP does not equal 1MP, neither does 1MP equal a spell per day. I do agree with Dairius, that a feat that grants extra anything should be static across the board. Besides this isn't a matter of if MP=HP, it is a matter of fairness...plain and simple. In terms of getting your stats higher just to fit the feat, that is wrong from the start...you shouldn't have to min-max or become a munchkin just for a feat...then again I have been disliking some of these later changes anyone, I have people wanting to walk away because a good chunk of classes they wanted to use for PRCs are now archetypes...a few were find, but I think we have more archtypes for some classes then nearly all the PRCs left it seems. Unless you want to use magic you can't prestige...except for a few rare cases.

[Viladin]

I can't please everybody, unfortunately.