+- Final Fantasy d20 Forums (https://forums.finalfantasyd20.com)
+-- Forum: Final Fantasy d20 Forums (https://forums.finalfantasyd20.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: FFd20 Information and Ruleset (https://forums.finalfantasyd20.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=4)
+--- Thread: Request regarding the Holy Knight class (/showthread.php?tid=54)
Request regarding the Holy Knight class - Alpha Stryke - 11-13-2012
Hi there,
First I would like to say this is an excellent conversion, and rather obviously a labor of love with a lot of thought and time having gone into it.
I have one request however, and that is to remake the Holy Knight and Dark Knight classes the way they were in Final Fantasy Tactics (and the excellent PSP revision, War of the Lions). I have always wanted to play a Holy Knight and a Dark Knight in a tabletop game, and this appears to be the way to do it.
However, currently the classes appear to be a mix between Paladin/Blackguard from Final Fantasy's and D&D with smatterings of FF:Tactics Holy Knight/Dark Knight. Here is my humble suggestion:
Holy Knight:
Remove all the Paladin abilities, like auras, white mage spell casting, smites, etc. Put all of those into a new class called Paladin, which would be based on the Final Fantasy Paladins. Then, merge the Divine Knight PRC with the abilities remaining in the Holy Knight base class, and voila, you basically have the class of Agrias Oaks and Delita that so many ppl fell in love with. All we really need from the Holy Knight in terms of class abilities is the Holy Sword abilities, which are listed as Sword Techs in the Divine Knight class. Plus, the current Holy Knight base class has a couple of Holy Sword abilities built in as well (Lightning Stab for instance)
Dark Knight
Do the same as above: Shift all non Dark Knight abilities into a new base class called Blackguard. Then merge the Fell Knight PRC into the Dark Knight, to get the classic FF:Tactics class Gafgarion had and which you could select in FF:Tactics War of the Lions.
Note, I could ofcourse personally do the same, but thing is people who run FF games using your ruleset consider it 'official', no one would allow me to play a game using my own tinkered classes using these rules. If you made these changes part of your official ruleset however, all GMs would allow them in their games.
Please do take my request into consideration.
Thanks!
RE: Request regarding the Holy Knight class - Nihilarian - 11-13-2012
I think Holy Knight and Paladin are sufficiently similar in concept that having both as a base class would seem redundant. Same with Blackguard/Dark Knight.
As to the rest; I wouldn't be adverse to switching the current Holy Knight to a PrC and making the Divine Knight into a base class. This would make the FF1 classes easier to mimic.
EDIT: If you did post your "tinkered" classes and Vil gave his approval, the DM's would likely be more willing to accept them.
RE: Request regarding the Holy Knight class - Alpha Stryke - 11-13-2012
There is more than enough material to make them into separate classes. Not only that, but the Holy Knight in FF:Tactics is quite different to the 'classic' Paladin in FF games (such as Cecil)
The current Holy Knight base class is much more like a combination of the FF Paladin and the D&D Paladin. The Divine Knight PRC is more like the Holy Knight.
So my request, as above, is to split the Paladin part from the Holy Knight (which is most of the class) and make it into a Paladin base class. It would be very wasy to do with minimal changes.
Then make the Divine Knight PRC into the Holy Knight base class, adding in the few elements from the current HK base class that did not fit the Paladin class.
Honestly I do believe this would go over very well with FF fans, as those who want to play a Cecil like character can play Paladin, while does wishing for an Agrias Oaks type character can play the Holy Knight. Best of all, this would be viable from the lower levels (from level 1) instead of having to wait for high levels to be able to get and play the Divine Knight PRC.
RE: Request regarding the Holy Knight class - Nihilarian - 11-13-2012
If I recall correctly, Cecil spends most of the game as a Dark Knight before switching jobs. It reminds me of how Fallen Paladins can trade out Paladin levels for Blackguard levels (In reverse). So I stand by my comment.
RE: Request regarding the Holy Knight class - Alpha Stryke - 11-13-2012
No, Cecil is a dark knight for around the first half of the game at most, then becomes Paladin.
With due respect, I do not see how that validates your point as both the Paladin and the Dark Knight classes in the game are completely different to the Holy Knight and the Dark Knight of FF:tactics with completely different powers and abilities.
Oh and by the way a question: Do the Divine Knight PRC Holy Sword Tech's do damage based on the total character level or only DK level? For instance, Judgement Blade does 2d8 pts damage + 1 pt for every DK level. Does that mean only the PRCs level, or are the levels of the base class counted as well?
If it's only DK level then isn't the damage output quite low, as 2d8+1/PRC level to only one target is quite low at the total character levels you can use this sword tech (at least level 9)
RE: Request regarding the Holy Knight class - Nihilarian - 11-13-2012
I'm not due that much respect.
I still don't see the need to have multiple base classes based on the same concepts.
I looked it up, and before becoming a paladin the only ability Cecil gets is Darkness. No casting at all. A Dark Knight base class (based on the current Fell Knight) with a Darkness ability (take damage to deal more damage to enemy) would fit both him and your FFT Dark Knight perfectly fine; After which Cecil could take a level in a Paladin/Divine Knight PrC (based on the current Holy Knight), and trade in his Dark Knight levels for Paladin/Divine Knight (in a manner similar to Fallen Paladins of 3.5).
And yes, it's based on DK level, not character level.
RE: Request regarding the Holy Knight class - Viladin - 11-13-2012
Low on the totem pole of things I need to fix up... but I was thinking of melding Holy/Divine Knight and Dark/Fell Knight.
RE: Request regarding the Holy Knight class - Alpha Stryke - 11-13-2012
(11-13-2012, 05:50 PM)Viladin Wrote: Low on the totem pole of things I need to fix up... but I was thinking of melding Holy/Divine Knight and Dark/Fell Knight.
That would be AWESOME!! All FF:Tactics fans would thank you from the bottom of their hearts, as the only main thing missing from this excellent conversion is the ability to play those two unique classes (HK and DK) from the getgo (aka level 1) If there is anything I can do to aid in your doing this sooner rather than later please do let me know!
Also, can you clarify something: Do the Holy Sword Techs in the Divine Knight PRC add the entire chraacter level of a character in damage or only the PRC level? For instance, does Judgement Blade add 2d8 + 1 pts of dmg/Divine Knight PRC level or + dmg/Total Character Level?
If it is the former, isn't the damage output low for a power that works on only one opponent? Considering that you have to be at least level 9 to get Judgement Blade, isn't a damage of 2d8 + 2 (max total dmg of 18) on the low side against opposition on that level? In the game FF:Tactics Judgement Blade did comparable damage to Black Mages and targeted multiple foes, and it was much quicker to cast than Black Magic.
Thanks!
RE: Request regarding the Holy Knight class - Viladin - 11-13-2012
(11-13-2012, 06:08 PM)Alpha Stryke Wrote:(11-13-2012, 05:50 PM)Viladin Wrote: Low on the totem pole of things I need to fix up... but I was thinking of melding Holy/Divine Knight and Dark/Fell Knight.
That would be AWESOME!! All FF:Tactics fans would thank you from the bottom of their hearts, as the only main thing missing from this excellent conversion is the ability to play those two unique classes (HK and DK) from the getgo (aka level 1) If there is anything I can do to aid in your doing this sooner rather than later please do let me know!
Also, can you clarify something: Do the Holy Sword Techs in the Divine Knight PRC add the entire chraacter level of a character in damage or only the PRC level? For instance, does Judgement Blade add 2d8 + 1 pts of dmg/Divine Knight PRC level or + dmg/Total Character Level?
If it is the former, isn't the damage output low for a power that works on only one opponent? Considering that you have to be at least level 9 to get Judgement Blade, isn't a damage of 2d8 + 2 (max total dmg of 18) on the low side against opposition on that level? In the game FF:Tactics Judgement Blade did comparable damage to Black Mages and targeted multiple foes, and it was much quicker to cast than Black Magic.
Thanks!
It was based on PRC level, but it won't matter much when I delete them and meld them with the Holy and Dark knight classes.
RE: Request regarding the Holy Knight class - Nihilarian - 11-13-2012
Seems like a good idea, but be careful not to overpack the class.
RE: Request regarding the Holy Knight class - Viladin - 11-13-2012
I plan to remove the various of "Knight" overlap abilities.