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+---- Thread: Initiator archetypes (/showthread.php?tid=490)
RE: Initiator archetypes - Manly Man - 11-14-2015
Getting going on Eblanese Ninja, I'm open to concrit while I'm working on it.
RE: Initiator archetypes - Manly Man - 12-01-2015
So, I'm kind of stuck here, since for the Eblanese Secrets feature, I'm looking to blend the disciplines available to the archetype in a way that's similar to feats that are coming in PoW: Expanded (Electrum Manticore lets you mix Golden Lion and Silver Crane stances and boosts into the same action, for example), but keep it to the disciplines available. Here are the two that I have so far, and if you've got suggestions, try to use these as an example of what I'm looking for.
Elemental Reflection Strike: Initiating an Elemental Flux boost before using a Shattered Mirror strike converts all bonus damage done by the strike into the element you are attuned to. It also adds a status condition that the enemy suffers if the strike hits, depending upon the element. The save is determined by the highest-level maneuver used.
Fire Any target who fails the save gains the Burning condition for 1d3 rounds.
Ice Any target who fails the save gains the Frozen condition for 1d3 rounds.
Wind Any target who fails the save gains the Squalled condition for 1d3 rounds.
Earth Any target who fails the save gains the Weighted condition for 1d3 rounds.
Lightning Any target who fails the save gains the Static condition for 1d3 rounds.
Water Any target who fails the save gains the Drenched condition for 1d3 rounds.
Spiritfire Stance: Initiating an Elemental Flux strike while in a Veiled Moon stance lets you make the attack roll for it as a touch attack, and all damage done by your weapon and the strike are converted to the element that you are attuned to.
RE: Initiator archetypes - dairius_chi - 12-01-2015
Sorry I been quiet lately, had a lot on my plate and haven't gotten around to reading the additions just yet- though I do have this page bookmarked so I'm still around for once things settle down >.<
On the note of stances, so far those two I really like. For the Flux/Veil one I wonder if the damage moving to Force (typical damage of Veiled Moon, more powerful than most elemental types, fits with attacking 'through' the ethereal plane)
RE: Initiator archetypes - Manly Man - 12-01-2015
True. Something I should note is that you also have to spend a point of animus to use those abilities too. The main reason why, at first, I'm a little leery about doing force damage for Spiritfire Stance is because of the fact that whipping out maneuvers as touch attacks is pretty damn powerful. On the other hand, a lot of Elemental Flux's maneuvers are already ranged touch attacks, so it's not like it's making a huge difference in how you'll use them. I think making them do force/nonelemental would definitely fit though. It's still all energy damage, so there's a bit of a disadvantage for you in that it's all subject to stuff that negates magical attacks. It would definitely make them just about the best Ghostbuster ever, though.
RE: Initiator archetypes - Manly Man - 12-26-2015
So, something I've been working on is the Genji Clansman, which is essentially the pseudo-psionic counterpart to the pseudo-magical Eblanese Ninja; I'd made them as something of a cross between the Psychic Warrior and Zealot classes thought up by Dreamscarred Press. They're also a great way to introduce psionic feats into the game, if you're curious about the subsystem and have been thinking about including psionics in your regular Pathfinder games. The archetype is done, in essence, and is open to con-crit.
Besides, the idea of a psychic samurai who can scramble your brains like an egg while cutting you into bloody ribbons is awesome anyway.
RE: Initiator archetypes - dairius_chi - 12-27-2015
I still have a lot of reading to do on this page, and that new thing sounds right up my alley so I look forward to when I finally buckle down and do.
RE: Initiator archetypes - Manly Man - 01-10-2016
So, for kicks, I went and made a hume variant for a homebrew setting, and also to compliment the Genji Clansman.
RE: Initiator archetypes - Manly Man - 02-20-2016
Got two more abilities for the Eblanese Ninja's secrets done.
Ghost-Faced Killer: Initiating a Shattered Mirror boost before using a Veiled Moon strike makes the strike do an additional 2d6 nonelemental damage that also counts as piercing and slashing damage. If used on an incorporeal opponent, the strike instead does 4d6 nonelemental damage that also counts as piercing and slashing damage, and the opponent must make a Will save against the strike (DC = level of strike maneuver + Wis modifier) or be stunned for 1d3 rounds. This bypasses any immunity the target may have to stunning effects.
Moonlit Hanami: Initiating a Veiled Moon boost while in an Elemental Flux stance grants the effects of the boost to all allies within 30 ft., and their attacks also deal +1d6 damage of the element you are attuned to when you initiate the boost for a number of rounds equal to your Wisdom modifier. Changing your active element during this time does not change the element your party uses, unless you activate this ability again, in which case it restarts the time limit and replaces the previous element with the new one.
Thoughts?
RE: Initiator archetypes - dairius_chi - 02-22-2016
Ghost-Faced Killer: When the damage is listed as non-elemental having it also be slashing and piercing doesn't really do it any favors, the only times it'd come up is something with DR/bludgeoning would reduce the bonus damage from it. If that was the intention, then you may as well just list it as slashing/piercing damage.
Moonlit Hanami: I was originally going to say a Boost to everyone within 30ft sounded like too much, but Veiled Moon has very few. One at 3rd level would be particularly powerful though, making everyone Incorporeal for a full round as early as 5th level (or the earliest the class allows). Besides that one though none of them feel particularly bad, as the ones I was worried about aren't of any subtype. Namely the teleportation ones, and the one that lets you heal based on your ranks in stealth.
RE: Initiator archetypes - Manly Man - 02-24-2016
Thanks for the input on that. I think what was on my mind was having the extra damage be treated as nonelemental damage, but if the enemy is immune to nonelemental damage or somesuch, it counts as piercing and slashing as though it was an attack from a weapon instead. I think I'll have it be that the damage either counts as nonelemental or piercing and slashing damage, whichever is favorable (for example, if someone was to use that cosmic crystal armor I made to resist some of the nonelemental damage, it would instead count as piercing and slashing, and thereby do full damage).
Then again, how many enemies have resistance to nonelemental damage, anyway? I'll switch it around.
Have you checked out any of the other stuff I've done? I really wanna hear your thoughts on the Tenebris Angelus and the Genji Clansman.
EDIT: Changed ghost-faced killer to do 2d6 P&S to corporeal enemies, 4d6 nonelemental to incorporeal ones, and either of them make a save against the strike for a stunning effect.
RE: Initiator archetypes - dairius_chi - 02-24-2016
I haven't gotten around to the larger bits yet, sorry, but I'm sure I will get the time to sit down and do an in-depth assessment. The last couple months were hectic and slow for various reasons, but things have started to quiet down so hopefully I won't up and vanish before getting around to this.
EDIT: And I like the change to Ghost-Faced Killer, being more effective against incorporeal types sorta gives a double meaning to the ability name >.>
RE: Initiator archetypes - dairius_chi - 03-01-2016
Tenebris Angelus
Lend Me Your Life: First off I think it should definitely state that allies can opt out of sacrificng any HP if they desire. That said, I don't think it's good to have the limit break be so varied depending on how many things nearby can be considered an ally and are willing to give you some HP.
The name makes me think of a reversed Shield Other, so whenever you take damage it's halved abd they take the remainder. Willing ally, or an unwilling target would get a save to negate it. Keep the duration as is, range 60ft for the single target. I don't know if it needs this, but you could also increase the number of targets at every 4th level. So at level 12, you affect three people, whenver you are damaged it's divided four ways (or less if some targets made their save).
Class Stances:
Vehementiam Draghignazzo: ...alright, gimme a minute.
...
...
...
Alright, so, the name is great, moving on.
"While in this stance, you add one point of damage that counts as both fire and shadow damage to your attacks, whichever is favorable, plus your Charisma modifier, for every four class levels."
I was confused by this ta first until I saw the damage progression on a later stance, the wording should be fixed since this almost sounds like you add your charisma mod every 4 levels.
"The fragility that the energy blights your skin with, however, adds one point of damage to their attacks for every four class levels you have (minimum 1)."
So enemies basically get bonus damage against you that scales with level, while in this stance?
"Expenditure of one use of harm touch grants you another point of fire/shadow damage for every 1d6 that your harm touch ability would deal for as long as you remain in this stance."
That's a bit much, Harm Touch scales at 1d6/2 levels, to every attack as long as you don't break stance. Just to give an idea, at 8th level with 16 charisma, if you expend a single Harm Touch (which you have 7 of a day) your damage boost would go from
Invidia Scarmiglione: This one feels a lot more limited in scope, the bonus is only on maneuvers that specialize with curses, the drawback only triggers on a couple elements rather than all attacks like before. If the goal was to just add a couple more elements, maybe just having it be a variant of the other stance would work better.
Malitia Cagnazzo: Onto the 3rd level one. It's interesting to say the least. When you pull the aura in, does it ever expand outward again?
Superbia Malacoda: I like it, there's some bits of grammar out of place but the overall effect is kinda cool, doesn't feel overly strong.
Concupiscentia Barbariccia: That's another mouthful... this is a cool idea but ends up really messy, I don't really know what I'd suggest on it.
Honorem Rubicante: I like 'modes', so you get bonus points for that.
-Defendere: Powerful... maybe have it start of resistance to fire/cold, upgrade to immune at a later level, upgrade again to absorb at 19 or 20.
-Impetum: I can see why it'd be less defensive, but suddenly gaining a vulnerability to cold feels hard to justify. Since they're just wings, coming out of your back, what if it lacked any resistance whatsoever to fire and cold, but no vulnerabilities as well. Just offense and mobility boosts.
Beatitudo Calcabrina: I think having it just be damage increase by 1 category would be fine enough, honestly. And the supercharge version... I'm not really a fan of, I'd tone it down a bit or a lot.
Unbending Malice: Neat, I like it.
Lamina Timoris: Also neat, I like this too.
Ferit Tranquila Morte: Hmm... overall I think this looks good.
RE: Initiator archetypes - Biyama - 03-01-2016
I don't know if you take requests but I would be very interested in seeing an unarmed/monk-like initiator
RE: Initiator archetypes - Manly Man - 03-02-2016
Hooray! Opinions!
Lend Me Your Life: That's actually a good idea too. I was kinda dissatisfied with it as-is, so it's nice to have another direction for that to go. Changed.
Vehementian Draghignazzo: So here, I was going for a simple tradeoff between damage dealt and damage received instead of how the other stances get [fancy drawback] + [powerful bonus]. Yeah, the damage you take scales up, but five points of damage at level 20 isn't going to amount to much when you're doing even more, since you can add your Charisma modifier and expend a use of Harm Touch to pile it all on. I suppose lowering it just a bit (one point every six levels beyond 1st means 4 extra damage at 19th) wouldn't be so bad, and would keep the amount of damage you get out of it notably higher than what you receive. I'll change the duration of the extra damage down to "a number of rounds equal to your Charisma modifier" as well, though; I had been kind of on the fence about that, and I've found that it's always easier to nerf something and make it come out balanced right instead of trying to buff up something that's just not doing any good.
Invidia Scarmiglione: My goal was less to add other elements and more to make the stances basically let you be the Diet Coke to the Elemental Archfiend's Coca-Cola, in essence. In FFIV, Scarmiglione throws around the Curse status a lot, so I was trying to focus a bit on that. The penalty that comes from the stance is a little less dangerous than the other 1st-level stance, and so having the bonus be more limited in scope seemed fair. I could do something like using a boost that grants damage while in this stance grants the bonus earth/shadow damage on top of that, and using a strike maneuver that has effects reliant on the Cursed status add that plus your Charisma modifier in damage, maybe? I'm not entirely sure on how to do this one properly, because most of the ways to make the bonus more worthwhile are kind of overpowered for the penalty you suffer. Maybe instead of messing with the damage boni, it could be that enemies within range are Cursed in the same way that malitia Cagnazzo are Drenched?
Malitia Cagnazzo: Yes, that was intended, and is now clarified in the entry.
Superbia Malacoda: Noted, I'll touch that up to make it easier to read.
Concupiscentia Barbariccia: Another example of me trying to follow the watered-down-Archfiend concept. I would be kind of leery to use her full power (throwing the Petrify status everywhere, reducing foes to critical HP immediately, and zapping everyone with lightning) even as an 8th-level stance, so I was trying to emphasize the whirlwind itself. I'll look into ways of making it seem less all over the place, I suppose; this is another situation where having more than one other person's thoughts would be helpful. Not that I don't like or want your help, but more input results in a better product.
Honorem Rubicante: Yet again, a milder emulation of the Archfiend is what I was aiming for here. Your resist/immune/absorb idea is great, and I implemented that (immunity at 16th, absorption at 18th), and to help make the vulnerability to ice a bit more fair, I've added that you absorb fire at 17th while in impetum mode. Just trying to keep it in line with being at least similar to the way the boss fights were in IV.
Beatitudo Calcabrina: Now, I do understand what you're saying about the stance being a little too far on the powerful side, so I went and reduced the effective size modifier for damage by one step. I also reduced the damage you take after expending one use of harm touch to 15 per round to help make it slightly less dangerous for what you get out of it. While Calcabrina is not an Archfiend in IV, it is an iconic enemy (it even has its own bit of the soundtrack), and I was trying to capture the huge boost in strength the boss gets when it turns into a crazy ceramic doll Megazord. How I aimed to do that was by making something similar to the Frenzy ability that the Frenzied Berserker got in D&D 3.5 (huge boost of damage, you take damage every round), but less cheesy. It's still a very risky way to bolster your damage as well, but only harmful to yourself instead of your allies. As for the supercharge mode, I was looking at it that if engaging the stance was like hulking out, then using harm touch would be like going Super Saiyan.
Unbending Malice: Thanks!
Lamina Timoris: Also thanks!
Ferit Tranquilla Morte: Also also thanks!
RE: Initiator archetypes - Manly Man - 03-02-2016
(03-01-2016, 09:07 PM)Biyama Wrote: I don't know if you take requests but I would be very interested in seeing an unarmed/monk-like initiator
I actually plan on having an archetype for Monks and another for Black Belts. For the Monk, I was thinking something along the lines of replacing their ki powers with Broken Blade, Mithral Current, and Sleeping Goddess maneuvers (replacing their ki pool with MP to use on Sleeping Goddess maneuvers), while Black Belts would have Broken Blade, Primal Fury, and Thrashing Dragon, though I'm not sure what to trade out.
RE: Initiator archetypes - Biyama - 03-03-2016
You could always replace maneuver training and martial flexibility with actual maneuvers
RE: Initiator archetypes - Manly Man - 03-05-2016
I plan on doing something more than just swapping out a few things for maneuvers. I'm doing that with the other classes already (Eblanese Ninjas get Traditions and Secrets, Sanctified Blades get stuff that allows a lot of attacks of opportunity, Genji Clansmen get psionic feats and other psionic mechanics worked in, etcetera). I'm thinking to involve stuff like being able to do two or more strike maneuvers as a full-round action or somesuch.
RE: Initiator archetypes - Manly Man - 04-01-2016
Thought of another couple Eblanese Secrets.
Burning Vengeance: Initiating a Shattered Mirror strike after having initiated an Elemental Flux counter before your turn converts all extra damage done by the strike into the element to which you are attuned, and does +3d6 damage of the element to which you are attuned to whatever target had prompted the initiation of the counter. Using the strike on the target who prompted the counter adds a burst effect, all enemies within 10 ft. of the target taking 1d6 damage of the element you are attuned to.
Luna Looks Back: Initiating a successful Veiled Moon counter while in a Shattered Mirror stance lets you repeat the effects of the counter on the next attack roll made against you as a free action until your next turn. The counter is only expended once, but it cannot be recovered for the rest of the encounter. For each additional point of animus you expend, you may repeat the effects against one more attack roll until your next turn. Spending more than one point of animus on this secret expends the counter for the rest of the day.
RE: Initiator archetypes - Manly Man - 04-20-2016
Aaand the Eblanese Ninja is finally done! Tell me what you think.
RE: Initiator archetypes - Viladin - 04-20-2016
I like them all.